Day changed to 2023-09-01
[17:08] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#9102 I understand.
[17:08] sourcerer: 2023-08-31 19:01:01 (#jwrd) jfw: caai: a perhaps more subtle aspect of his point is that whatever you build on linux, it's going to end up with the same "shape" as LAMP - basically being the same thing by another name and possibly more rough edges, missing pieces & bloat
[17:17] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-Aug-2023/#9106 i recall you mentioning this comparative similarity that defines many DBMS's at this point in time
[17:22] caai: i do not know much about Postgres. i only know that it is not owned by oracle, it is open source, it is known for being quite extensive in its capabilities, and it seems to have traction amongst linux users.
[17:23] jfw: caai: it does; as does mysql.
[17:24] jfw: you reckon the oracle ownership is a downside?
[17:27] dorion: mysql is fully open source too.
[17:27] caai: i have far more experience with sqlite and oracle. at this point, there has been no need for us to deviate from sqlite, however, once my business stacks on more technology, and requires more security, we will have to transition to a more comprehensive DBMS. in my experience, this doesn't require much change to the DDL, nor the DML. one just has to learn the differences and make the adjustements to
[17:27] caai: the code.
[17:28] dorion: what does oracle ownership mean in practice if it's fully open sauce ?
[17:28] caai: i suppose i have reckoned that the oracle ownership is a downside.
[17:28] caai: since EVERYBODY reads the code from cover to cover ...........
[17:29] caai: you guys are right, which is why i brought up the point
[17:29] caai: to learn
[17:30] dorion: that's why we keep you around, caai.
[17:30] jfw: I guess I don't give it much heed because I'm in no hurry whatsoever to go with the "latest" 8.x or whatever, it can be owned by cthulhu himself for all the difference it'd make to its history & present
[17:31] jfw: *bought by
[17:32] jfw: caai: there will certainly be adjustments required to switch, whether "much" or not depends on how involved your code & schemas are
[17:35] jfw: but it's superficial rather than fundamental adjustments for the most part, I'd say. perhaps as long as you don't take too much advantage of sqlite's flexible data typing.
[17:38] caai: yes, that has been my experience with these differences. it is not too painful
[17:40] caai: i have just made a point to not learn via ms access. it seems to deviate too far and much of the syntax would have to be unlearned later
[17:44] jfw: ah, not sure about its syntax but guessing similar or same as SQL Server. another drawback there is the GUI-first modality acting as a crutch.
[17:45] jfw: then "oh I can hack some VBA macros to make this work nice" and now you're locked in for sure.
[17:47] caai: yeap!
[17:48] caai: alright caballeros! time to put in my python learning time for the day. ttyl
[17:48] jfw: cheers
Day changed to 2023-09-02
[15:36] blakeeus_: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#8913 jfw: My apologies for the late response, I find that a great idea as well.
[15:36] sourcerer: 2023-08-26 16:45:16 (#jwrd) jfw: in brainstorming for blakeeus, one activity coming to mind that'd be also creative & a service to the panamanian community, that doesn't depend on further development/release of the game, could be translating articles on it into spanish
[15:36] blakeeus_: Yesterday I had a meeting with the supervisors of the project and they find the blog a fantastic idea, because it is a service that is ongoing.
[15:38] blakeeus_: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#8917 jfw: Well it is also a service because, let's say I make the blog about a specific topic, like sustainable energy, that is a "global issue" (as they say in the IB schools), so I would be raising awareness.
[15:38] sourcerer: 2023-08-26 16:51:58 (#jwrd) jfw: then documenting that process, reviewing the service & what you learned would make for interesting article(s) and would be a service, not to "the web community" but specifically the independent publishing community.
[16:48] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9141 - nice!
[16:48] sourcerer: 2023-09-02 15:36:50 (#jwrd) blakeeus_: Yesterday I had a meeting with the supervisors of the project and they find the blog a fantastic idea, because it is a service that is ongoing.
[16:51] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9142 - impressive density of trigger words there, or "callsigns for stupid" if you like, heh.
[16:51] sourcerer: 2023-09-02 15:38:59 (#jwrd) blakeeus_: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#8917 jfw: Well it is also a service because, let's say I make the blog about a specific topic, like sustainable energy, that is a "global issue" (as they say in the IB schools), so I would be raising awareness.
[16:55] jfw: blakeeus: outside of satisfying lolstitutional checkboxes though, I wonder, do you find there's anybody around who isn't already well oversaturated with awareness of such global issues? the ones that the popular press has been on about nonstop for decades?
Day changed to 2023-09-04
[01:51] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9141 -- cool.
[01:51] sourcerer: 2023-09-02 15:36:50 (#jwrd) blakeeus_: Yesterday I had a meeting with the supervisors of the project and they find the blog a fantastic idea, because it is a service that is ongoing.
[12:07] sstacks: gtvffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
[13:41] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9142 -- I would advise against making a blog about a specific topic. before saying why, perhaps it's helpful to clarify what I mean by blog. A blog is software for publishing, in our case, we're using a version of wordpress called MP-WP, which has various advantages compared to, e.g. wordpress.com
[13:41] sourcerer: 2023-09-02 15:38:59 (#jwrd) blakeeus_: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#8917 jfw: Well it is also a service because, let's say I make the blog about a specific topic, like sustainable energy, that is a "global issue" (as they say in the IB schools), so I would be raising awareness.
[13:41] dorion: "maintained" by automattic, such as proper html linking.
[13:46] dorion: if you make a blog about a specific topic, you're constraining yourself to that topic. I think it's better to make the blog about you and all your interests and thus you'll have more things to write about and with more practice you'll improve the quality of your writing, which raises the chances it'll be a service. the articles that you accumulate on your blog with be about specific topics, sure.
[20:34] whaack: caai: I have been focusing a lot on my recovery for my upper extremities. Since we have similar problems I think it would be good to share notes as I mentioned before.
[20:35] whaack: I'll try to get some more writing posted with my exercise routines etc.
[21:42] mechs: hi
Day changed to 2023-09-05
[16:06] whaack: !e view-height
[16:06] btcexplorer: block_height: 805012
[16:06] btcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 13471
[16:06] whaack sighs
[16:07] whaack: dorion: I'm interested in stem cell therapy. Maybe I could come visit Panama in the mid to late October and have an appointment with the lab you mentioned.
[16:10] dorion: any idea what's up w/ the explorer ?
[16:11] dorion: whaack, the clinic is in Medellin, though the owner is based in Panama, which is how I met him.
[16:12] dorion: s/the explorer/the node that the explorer reads from/
[16:16] whaack: I am not sure what's up with the node
[16:18] whaack: Both of my nodes are behind .. I'll see if I can look into it today
[16:19] whaack: Well I've always wanted to go to Columbia and specifically Medellin.. lol
[16:34] whaack: !e view-height
[16:34] btcexplorer: block_height: 805012
[16:34] btcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 13499
[16:35] dorion: whaack, I think he'll be in Medellin in October. either way, can set up a call with him and a consultation w/ the doctor on his staff beforehand. then, if you want, you can run what they say by your doctors in the US.
[16:35] whaack: Okay, I would certainlyu be interested in the consultation.
[16:39] whaack: !e view-height
[16:39] btcexplorer: block_height: 805024
[16:39] btcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 13376
[16:40] whaack: The node's process had died
[16:49] whaack: !e view-height
[16:49] btcexplorer: block_height: 805045
[16:49] btcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 13201
[16:51] whaack: !E view-height
[16:51] nzbtcexplorer: block_height: 804466
[16:51] nzbtcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 19422
[16:51] whaack: !e view-block 340
[16:51] whaack: !E view-block 340
[16:52] whaack: !e view-height
[16:53] whaack: trinque's paste service went down so at the moment the only available interface for the block explorer is the webpage bitcoindexplorer.com
[16:53] btcexplorer: block_height: 805053
[16:53] btcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 13082
[16:53] whaack: I am going to shift it to jfw's but that may take me a while
[18:00] jfw: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/ys8q6gy8iw - comment I left at https://ritcsec.wordpress.com/2019/12/02/apache2-keep-alive-vs-concurrent-connections/ as it's unclear if it went to moderation or they dropped it entirely.
[18:10] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9188 -- yeah, looks like his website and wot.deedbot.org are down too.
[18:10] sourcerer: 2023-09-05 16:53:13 (#jwrd) whaack: trinque's paste service went down so at the moment the only available interface for the block explorer is the webpage bitcoindexplorer.com
[20:40] jfw: whaack: why would it take a while to switch to mine, wouldn't it just be a change of url?
[20:41] jfw: at least to use the php frontend, if for some reason opening a plain tcp socket is difficult
Day changed to 2023-09-06
[19:12] sstacks:
Day changed to 2023-09-07
[15:54] jfw: https://doc.dovecot.org/configuration_manual/authentication/auth_penalty/ - dovecot: <del>secure</del> stupid by default.
[18:16] jfw: https://dovecot.org/pipermail/dovecot/2019-January/114200.html - and their suggested way to disable it doesn't work and adds worse delays.
[18:20] jfw: guy provides a detailed and useful report of how broken the thing is, dev responds asking for extraneous information and the thread dies.
[21:00] jfw: the dovecot code continues to be infuriating; indirection and misdirection and most general possible (yet oddly specific, and not meaningfully user-accessible) structure at every level, code paths bouncing around between different source files and libraries and micro-services
[21:02] jfw: the disabling anvil-auth-penalty listener suggestion is clearly a workaround, basically crippling the offending code by removing something it depends on without actually turning it off
[21:06] jfw: "anvil" near as I can tell is basically a hash table in an rpc server for the special purpose of tracking this connection limit & penalty state (showing what I mean by simultaneously most general and oddly specific)
[21:07] jfw: and they REALLY want to cause some kind of delay after auth failures - for one thing because they imagine this will do something for timing attacks, would you believe it !
[21:08] jfw: of course there's no "sleep" call or equivalent to be found anywhere, it looks more like direct diddling of I/O loop parameters
[21:09] jfw: it might be reasonably possible to remove the whole thing, basically src/auth/auth-penalty.c and anything that touches it. but these approaches sometimes explode into "the entire thing".
[21:09] jfw: (entire codebase.)
[21:19] jfw: "If the IP is in login_trusted_networks (e.g. webmail), skip any authentication penalties" is a lie
[21:20] jfw: but it's possible to do nowadays by even more ornate and unexplained mumbo-jumbo, what more could one possibly ask.
Day changed to 2023-09-08
[02:15] jfw: it also ties in to this elaborate "policy server" business where they call it "tarpitting" - as if anyone other than the poor user or administrator is going to be hurt by it.
[14:12] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9200 -- maybe send an email to the useful guy sharing some our your work on it and invite him over to #jwrd ?
[14:12] sourcerer: 2023-09-07 18:20:36 (#jwrd) jfw: guy provides a detailed and useful report of how broken the thing is, dev responds asking for extraneous information and the thread dies.
[14:14] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9204 -- lolz.
[14:14] sourcerer: 2023-09-07 21:07:34 (#jwrd) jfw: and they REALLY want to cause some kind of delay after auth failures - for one thing because they imagine this will do something for timing attacks, would you believe it !
[14:16] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9201 -- pretty good description.
[14:16] sourcerer: 2023-09-07 21:00:03 (#jwrd) jfw: the dovecot code continues to be infuriating; indirection and misdirection and most general possible (yet oddly specific, and not meaningfully user-accessible) structure at every level, code paths bouncing around between different source files and libraries and micro-services
[15:25] jfw: got a patch done that makes a fairly clean cut of it I think. builds in dev & target environments & seems to work fine.
[15:27] jfw: next it might be wise to look at actual soundness to timing attack at least in whatever builtin password checker
[15:37] jfw: on the "crimes of the code" I can add: callback functions everywhere, and never even accompanied by comments regarding the meanings of their arguments or what they're supposed to do.
[15:39] jfw: (makes it impossible to know what code a function is calling, without also understanding the dynamic context of that function's invocation.)
[15:55] jfw: looks like it is timing safe actually, at least the comparison of provided to reference password material seems to go through a mem_equals_timing_safe which does bytewise xor-and-accumulate.
[16:03] jfw: that function also has this attempt to stop improper compiler optimization using a volatile global variable, haven't seen that before.
[16:12] jfw: python's compare_digest does something similar; php 5.6's hash_equals does not
[16:19] jfw: I'd guess it's one of those things, "no current compiler would dare to make such a dastardly optimization" but in theory the language standard would allow it
[16:24] jfw: but then I could argue their version doesn't go far enough - the accumulator variable needs to be volatile the whole time, not just copied into a volatile at the end of the loop!
[16:31] jfw: dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9211 - good idea; any questions you have in mind to ask or just play it by ear?
[16:31] sourcerer: 2023-09-08 14:12:51 (#jwrd) dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9200 -- maybe send an email to the useful guy sharing some our your work on it and invite him over to #jwrd ?
[18:24] dorion: jfw, I was thinking more along the lines of, "hey, you asked a really good question, got a response with lots left to be desired. I had similar experience w/ dovecot people, decided to create a fork to suit my needs. I'm reaching out because maybe there's some common ground where we could work together."
[18:31] jfw: dorion: alright
Day changed to 2023-09-09
[15:58] jfw: I'm recalling a conversation, perhaps involving billymg, regarding concerns about drafted text being lost from html input forms on page reload or navigation, where mircea_popescu said something like "wtf, what works that way? mp-wp doesn't lose things like that" (haven't yet found the ref)
[15:59] jfw: I was amazed and thought this was some magical mp-wp feature, on the basis of experience with any number of horrible websites
[16:02] jfw: I've now found some interesting points: it's not any special mp-wp feature, firefox at least normally remembers/caches input values properly like that, unless the form structure changes significantly enough between loads that it can't meaningfully remap the values - or unless something deliberately prevents it from saving them
[16:05] jfw: and what might that something be? why, nothing less than php itself which perhaps helpfully attempts to suppress caching when sessions (i.e. stateful interactions) are in play - but in the default "nocache" php.ini setting - which is the only option that really stops caching at all - it includes this very dubious
[16:05] jfw: "no-store" in the Cache-Control cocktail
[16:07] jfw: no-store is intended to prevent any caches in the path from saving anything at all, for sekoority reasons; as opposed to the more reasonable no-cache which just prevents them from serving cached content without revalidating.
[16:08] jfw: in HTTP/1.1 RFC theory, the browser may still save stuff in "history buffers", but in firefox practice it evidently doesn't, and form inputs evaporate.
[16:12] jfw: however, if a particular php script emits its own Cache-Control via the header function, it will replace the php defaults, as any call to header will by default replace earlier values of the given header. so mp-wp dodges the bullet because it sets its own anti-caching headers which do *not* include "no-store".
[16:13] jfw: testing these effects was a particular pain because firefox would impishly remember, forget or fabricate cache policy depending more on how exactly you loaded the page than on what the server was specifying, the details there are rather gruesome.
[16:17] jfw: direct/fresh url bar entry, restoring a closed tab, simple reload, and "full" reload (shift-ctrl-r) each behave differently; full reload doesn't actually work in this case for testing, only fresh entry, and tab restoration gets it into a state where it disregards prior no-store instructions entirely and persistently.
[16:21] jfw: o look, I was going to ping billymg.com but it's gone, nothing but ""Welcome to nginx!" placeholder page there.
[16:23] jfw: ah, needed a hosts file update.
[16:37] jfw: http://billymg.com/2022/02/running-mp-wp-on-a-modern-musl-based-gentoo/comment-page-1/#comment-598 pending moderation.
[17:05] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9156 alright. how would you like to go about doing so? where do you plan posting your exercise routines?
[17:05] sourcerer: 2023-09-04 20:34:58 (#jwrd) whaack: caai: I have been focusing a lot on my recovery for my upper extremities. Since we have similar problems I think it would be good to share notes as I mentioned before.
[17:10] dorion: http://dorion-mode.com/2023/09/junto-picking-the-lock-of-your-silly-con-valley-provisioned-digital-cage-and-getting-started-owning-your-computer-is-easier-than-it-seems/
[21:55] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-dovecot-initial-release-aka-version-240/#comment-2462 for the dovecot patch.
[22:00] jfw: dorion: I like the title
Day changed to 2023-09-10
[15:43] dorion: jfw, thanks.
Day changed to 2023-09-11
[16:25] sstacks: morning!
[16:35] sstacks: jfw:how is vacations?
[16:50] dorion: good morning sstacks.
[16:50] dorion: thank god it's monday.
[16:56] jfw: sstacks: well, I've kept pretty busy on software & networks stuff so dunno if much vacation yet but the change of surroundings has been pleasant.
[17:05] jfw: my fingers seem perhaps to heal faster between fresh bouts of blistering, which basically means getting to heal at all; but at five weeks out of the swampy climate now and two or three of those fresh bouts during the interval, it seems unlikely that the climate was the only or even controlling factor.
[17:05] sourcerer: 2021-06-30 21:52:21 (#jwrd) jfw: I did once at dorion's suggestion try icing my fingers for what I'd been told was 'dishydrotic eczema', because I was willing to try ~anything; was rather painful & didn't help. but ymmv.
[17:07] jfw: it seems interesting that all affected areas (3 fingers atm, mainly between outermost knuckle and tip) break out in tandem
[17:09] jfw: unless it's just made me so sensitized to humidity that one or two rainy days is enough to trigger. but no, the latest ones started just before the past two wet days.
[17:11] jfw: ^ that was extending the earlier "climate as controlling factor" thought, not the immediately prior "interesting"
[17:15] jfw: how've you been sstacks?
[22:20] sstacks: Glad to hear from you guys
[22:21] sstacks: jfw:im sorry you still having troubles with the eczema. Bought a shower filter to see if this helps my wife, im not very hopeful.Considering on getting a more sophisticated filter for the kitchen. But im little bit skeptical.Maybe you guys have any useful opinions on that kind of stuff.
[22:25] sstacks: dorion: Ive been meditating on our pending meeting of us three. Ive reached to some logical conclution on how to get more students on the program. Basically I think there must be some additional effort on highlighting threats and communicating them in a digestable form.
[22:26] sstacks: This is a general commentary, we shall get deep on a more personal gathering
Day changed to 2023-09-12
[15:14] whaack: I've struggled with eczema and this is what I did the last time I had a breakout. I've been eczema free for about a year and a half now.
[15:14] whaack: The first step is not using any soap on my hands. There is not such a good way to wash your hands when you have eczema - my understanding is that you need to let the body rebuild a layer of skin. Until then soap and perhaps even water is your enemy
[15:14] whaack: Note that my eczema breakout happened the same time they required to put alcohol to enter any establishment
[15:14] whaack: The next thing is that you need a hydrophobic layer at all times on your skin in the affected area until your body is able to build its own
[15:15] whaack: the best product for this in my opinion is petroleum jelly. Just keep putting it on all the time, you can't really use too much.
[15:15] whaack: With these two methods I was able to get rid of my eczema that plagued me for 6-12 months. I had other doctors that prescribed me cortizone creams and all this other junk that maybe gave for temporary relief but didn't solve the problem
[15:15] whaack: It was my GP that was able to figure it out and make the connection between increased soap use from the covid hysteria and my eczema
[15:15] whaack: You can get PH neutral soap in the meantime to occasionally wash your hands and I also recommend some gloves for washing dishes if that's a regular chore for you
[15:25] whaack: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#8912 << I let this message slip by. My apologies. Yes I am interested
[15:25] sourcerer: 2023-08-26 16:27:24 (#jwrd) dorion: whaack, did you consider further going ahead w/ the advanced JWRD training ?
[16:46] jfw: whaack, what I have (and perhaps sstacks's wife has, from what I hear) isn't actually eczema, they overloaded the term. 'dishydrosis' is more specific though also not apt as it's not a lack of hydration, though it can look like it once the damaged skin gets cut off. anyway, I've indeed found plain petroleum jelly works as well or better than any pharmaceutical stuff for temporary relief. gloves
[16:46] jfw: help basically to protect once the skin itself is compromised but I have not found them to stop or slow the progression of the blistering. I suspect there must be some kind of internal trigger for it, unidentified, possibly patient-specific, not just soap. but, I guess I haven't tried fully abstaining from personal hygiene, no, lol.
[16:48] jfw: (by "gets cut off" I mean in thef sense of cut from the body's resources, allowed to die & drop off like autumn leaves, not cut with a knife or something.)
[16:52] jfw: the ray of hope I have is that it went away on its own some time into my 2020 retreat to maine and later venturing into florida, coming back in force some time into my return to panama this year. thus my current 2-month trip is in part an occasion for better data collection.
[16:53] jfw: guess I should have written an article already, huh.
Day changed to 2023-09-13
[15:32] jfw: after a year+, the FreeFileSync derp shows no signs of having done anything about the gaping security hole that JWRD found at our own testing expense and generously reported to him. What he has done is made all kinds of other tweaks and started
[15:32] jfw: contradicting himself on the licensing of the program: the website header still declares 'open source', the code download still ships with open source licenses, but "the standard version of FreeFileSync is intended for private use only" and "In order to allow FreeFileSync in a commercial setting, it is required to license a number of devices for installation". By sending him euros, of course,
[15:32] jfw: anything but btc.
[15:34] jfw: needless to say, there's no sign of anything resembling a working build process document published either.
[15:36] jfw: I'd say the case is looking stronger for switching to putty+rsync for backups and putty+unison for the shared repository sync scenario
[15:43] jfw: the first will force an rsync gport, and the second will give the existing but unused ocaml gport a raison d'etre
[15:44] jfw: the upside of requiring those server-side code additions is it'll probably be faster than FFS ever could be just based on sftp-server
[15:52] jfw: I guess I should look at whether unison can be run in a one-way mode akin to rsync, so as to stone two birds in one hit.
[15:55] jfw: dorion: not saying any of this needs doing right now, but for planning the next steps.
[21:48] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9272 -- cool, it's going to be 0.15 btc for the 10 sessions. this time it will be more important for you to have the hardware on hand. bearing that in mind, when do you think will be a good time for you to start ? first week of november ?
[21:48] sourcerer: 2023-09-12 15:25:27 (#jwrd) whaack: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#8912 << I let this message slip by. My apologies. Yes I am interested
[21:50] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9280 -- ferfuxsake.
[21:50] sourcerer: 2023-09-13 15:32:53 (#jwrd) jfw: contradicting himself on the licensing of the program: the website header still declares 'open source', the code download still ships with open source licenses, but "the standard version of FreeFileSync is intended for private use only" and "In order to allow FreeFileSync in a commercial setting, it is required to license a number of devices for installation". By s
[21:51] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9283 -- alright.
[21:51] sourcerer: 2023-09-13 15:36:43 (#jwrd) jfw: I'd say the case is looking stronger for switching to putty+rsync for backups and putty+unison for the shared repository sync scenario
[21:51] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9287 -- alright, makes sense to me. thanks for the report.
[21:51] sourcerer: 2023-09-13 15:55:38 (#jwrd) jfw: dorion: not saying any of this needs doing right now, but for planning the next steps.
Day changed to 2023-09-17
[12:46] jfw_travel: dorion: extended winds night before last through yesterday from that hurricane Lee. no damage to our property but lost power late yesterday morning, still no word on time to restore from the utility. could return to the city if that doesn't change. nice and sunny now at least, upper 50s F.
[16:50] dorion: jfw_travel, alright. thanks for the update. sounds freshingly sunny and chilly at least.
[18:37] jfw: aand we're back. (power a couple hrs ago, network just now.)
Day changed to 2023-09-18
[21:22] whaack: Let me think about a start date. I think I will go visit the states for Christmas so I'm not sure if November is the best time to start.
[21:22] whaack: http://ztkfg.com/2023/09/who-is-your-daddy-and-what-does-he-do/ << I have another article in the oven as well
[21:23] whaack: Pushing forward with speech to text
[21:23] whaack: It's not too terrible for writing. But of course it has to be accompanied with edits from the keyboard
[21:26] whaack: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9195 << I just meant that it was not on the top of my to do list, not that it was a difficult programming challenge
[21:26] sourcerer: 2023-09-05 20:40:47 (#jwrd) jfw: whaack: why would it take a while to switch to mine, wouldn't it just be a change of url?
[21:26] whaack: By the way I don't think I mentioned that I'm in Costa Rica now! It feels good to be back
Day changed to 2023-09-19
[00:24] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9303 - heh, alright. never having been one with an especially strict to-do list, I usually relish the chance to cross something off on the rare occasion that it's an easy fix. evidently deedbot.org is no hurry to be fixed either (domain not showing expired but A records gone)
[00:24] sourcerer: 2023-09-18 21:26:02 (#jwrd) whaack: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9195 << I just meant that it was not on the top of my to do list, not that it was a difficult programming challenge
[00:25] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9299 - we could probably start sooner if that'd be better for you, or were you thinking more of pushing later?
[00:25] sourcerer: 2023-09-18 21:22:09 (#jwrd) whaack: Let me think about a start date. I think I will go visit the states for Christmas so I'm not sure if November is the best time to start.
[00:26] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9305 - escaped again!
[00:26] sourcerer: 2023-09-18 21:26:44 (#jwrd) whaack: By the way I don't think I mentioned that I'm in Costa Rica now! It feels good to be back
[00:29] jfw: whaack: I was keyboard shopping recently due to my ongoing kvm trouble, going for the cheapest for starters until the problem can be narrowed down, but was wondering what's the issue with the common ergonomic keyboards of the shallow v-shaped style (Microsoft Natural and clones, I guess)? not enough edge-to-center slope to get the wrists into a
[00:29] sourcerer: 2023-08-19 22:29:59 (#jwrd) jfw: unfortunately I've already seen some failures from the KVM setup, like keys getting stuck repeating for a couple seconds while the keyboard resets or something, and switching hotkey sequences not activating if I type them too fast. actually the two seem related. first hope is that it's the keyboard's usb adapting at fault and a pure ps/2 kb might help.
[00:29] jfw: more vertical pose?
[00:35] jfw: I'll say I'm unconvinced that forearm pronation / cubital tunnel compression is such a universal problem as you suggest, though not contesting that it may be for you
[00:39] jfw: possibly some people have stronger "need to move or relieve pressures or fidget" pain signals, or are more attuned to them, helping to build better habits or movement or posture in subtle ways such that less long-term damage is done
[00:42] jfw: maybe my hands start killing me next year and I eat my words, but I've made it past 33 with no sign of this particular problem, and with enough actual problems that it's hard to care much about the potential ones
[00:43] jfw: still, if there's a not too costly adjustment possible on the keyboard side, I'd consider it
[00:51] jfw: dorion: hey, I just had a message seemingly get accepted by gmail, what a concept. maybe they got the memo after all
[01:11] whaack: Yes the problem that I would have any keyboard that is not split is that there's no way to tilt it so you have to pronate your arms. It's true that there is lots of anatomical variation, and one talk I heard from a doctor said that the brachial plexus specifically has lots of variation between people.
[01:13] whaack: That said, usually with any athletic activity it is bad form to hold muscles in tension for extended periods of time when it is not necessary.
[01:19] whaack: I understand your point about not being able to tackle potential problems when there are ones that you have present one hundred percent. And RSI seems like something that some people are just bulletproof to.
[01:27] whaack: Although maybe those 'bulletproof people' have lots of loss of function in their later years because they didn't have the nervous system ringing the alarm all the time. I think that's kind of what you are getting at here http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9316
[01:27] sourcerer: 2023-09-19 00:39:43 (#jwrd) jfw: possibly some people have stronger "need to move or relieve pressures or fidget" pain signals, or are more attuned to them, helping to build better habits or movement or posture in subtle ways such that less long-term damage is done
[01:29] whaack: In personal hygiene goals, I need to fix my blog backup systems. Putting that in the channel to hold myself more accountable.
[01:30] jfw: well, it seemed to me you were already at the point where there was long-term damage accumulated, hence persistent pain set off by some trigger rather than some proportionate force
[01:31] jfw: I agree holding one position / tension for an extended time, especially when preoccupied with mental activities rather than specifically attending to the tension as in stretching etc, is harmful.
[01:32] jfw: my thought is that some notice earlier when they're doing that, basically
[01:33] jfw: I can't imagine many keyboardists are really typing full out all the time and don't have ample time to move hands around, outside of transcription activities perhaps. I certainly don't.
[01:34] jfw: don't hold my hands at the kb for extended times uninterrupted, that is. more so when I was into gaming.
[01:34] whaack: Yes, also I should note that I was playing a lot of guitar when I was injured. And I had constant neck tension from been rolled around in the surf
[01:35] whaack: If you lift your hands and return them to a normal position in between typing sentences or whatever, that may be enough to completely remove any problems
[01:36] whaack: My physical therapist insists that by the time you have chronic pain there is already a lot of cumulative damage
[01:37] jfw: makes sense
[01:37] whaack: And that the only way to really prevent RSI is prophylactically
[01:37] whaack: But it is tough because it is a problem that is totally invisible until it's too late
[01:38] whaack: I say this with the full intention of trying to recover, I'm not giving up on the idea that it's possible
[01:39] jfw: yeah, sometimes what's accumulated can likewise be gradually reduced
[01:40] whaack: The main issue is that it seems that scar tissue is always more susceptible to reinjury
[01:42] jfw: really? that doesn't seem so thinking of skin scars, since they're a thickening/toughening
[01:42] jfw: or fractured bones from what I heard
[01:42] whaack: I think that's the case with soft tissue specifically, so with regards to tendons and ligaments
[01:43] whaack: They also don't get good blood flow
[01:43] whaack: My problem though is specifically with my nerves, I believe that at least
[01:44] jfw: the nerves themselves rather than surrounding material pinching them?
[01:44] whaack: The reason being that I have such an unreliable pain signal. So it seems that the wiring that transmits the signal is what's wrong
[01:45] whaack: Yeah perhaps that is one way to look at it. There is nothing wrong with a nerve per se just something that is pinching it
[01:46] whaack: That can cause a negative feedback loop if the nerve pinched is the pipe used to drain blood, for example
[01:46] jfw: not quite following
[01:48] jfw: like a nerve that triggers an outflow of blood, its signal is reduced, causing more blood pressure around it and increasing the pinch?
[01:49] jfw: (that'd be a positive feedback loop, technically)
[01:50] whaack: Yes, although if I understand correctly the nerve itself has veins, so it's not just that it signals to drain blood but actually participate in that training itself
[01:50] whaack: You're right, it would be a positive feedback loop that has a negative effect
[01:52] whaack: I should emphasize the 'if I understand correctly' it's very much likely that I don't
[01:53] whaack: in that draining* itself
[02:04] jfw: well hm, a neuron is a single possibly very long & branching cell, so it can't itself contain veins, but if a nerve is a large bundle of those individual 'wires' then I suppose it could
[02:39] whaack: I'm off to bed, but the conversation so far has shown that I have a few things unclear here. I'll elaborate later.
[22:53] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9319 -- I just tested and got a message through too. we'll see how long it last I suppose.
[22:53] sourcerer: 2023-09-19 00:51:42 (#jwrd) jfw: dorion: hey, I just had a message seemingly get accepted by gmail, what a concept. maybe they got the memo after all
Day changed to 2023-09-21
[02:24] mechs: nice presentation dorion, found it a bit funny that you left the xrandr terminal in fullscreen
Day changed to 2023-09-24
[03:10] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#8629 - brand new straight ps/2 keyboard doesn't fix it, ugh. still can't quite nail down the problem exactly, but something like: two taps of the Ctrl key is the kvm's 'hotkey prefix', at which point it helpfully cuts the numlock light as feedback that it's indeed listening, and a third Ctrl dismisses it. So in some cases if you single tap Ctrl, then
[03:10] sourcerer: 2023-08-19 22:29:59 (#jwrd) jfw: unfortunately I've already seen some failures from the KVM setup, like keys getting stuck repeating for a couple seconds while the keyboard resets or something, and switching hotkey sequences not activating if I type them too fast. actually the two seem related. first hope is that it's the keyboard's usb adapting at fault and a pure ps/2 kb might help.
[03:10] jfw: type a normal chord like Ctrl-C, it enters that 'attention' mode, with the 'c' stuck repeating to the computer; another Ctrl re-lights numlock but keeps repeating until you also press 'c'.
[03:12] jfw: ugh, sometimes the opposite order (ctrl-c followed by single ctrl) sends it straight into 'attention' mode too
[03:26] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9360 - dual/extended screen mode with the terminal on one of them, or what? iirc that ubuntu interface keeps everything sorta-fullscreen by default
[03:26] sourcerer: 2023-09-21 02:24:14 (#jwrd) mechs: nice presentation dorion, found it a bit funny that you left the xrandr terminal in fullscreen
[23:28] jfw: Schubert piano sonata in A, D 959, movement 3 - "Scherzo. Allegro vivace - Trio. Un poco piu lento" - which I don't think I've heard before, has a theme/pattern that I could've sworn I knew from a Chopin something.
Day changed to 2023-09-26
[00:34] jfw: continuing the Schubert piano works tour, "4 Impromptus, D 935" comes recommended (and I'd definitely heard them before). #1 in f minor: fine but nothing particularly memorable. #2 in A-flat major: my favorite, bringing a simple, pure, unadorned and unashamed beauty in a wistful, contemplative mood. #3 in B-flat major: the theme-and-variations form, filling 12 minutes (in my Serkin 1979 recording)
[00:34] jfw: without overstaying its welcome, moving through a variety of tempos, moods and degrees of ornamentation before a final satisfying return to where it started and a serene finish. #4 in f minor: the "flurry of notes" style which seems to me typical of later classical to romantic period works, the "technical arms race" of the day something like the "solid walls of sound" in popular music of more
[00:34] jfw: recent centuries. but well employed; this one gets you moving.
Day changed to 2023-09-27
[15:35] jfw: Schubert Piano Sonata in B-flat major, D 960 - the first word that comes to mind is "relaxing" ; except I was already pretty well relaxed and more hoping for a morning pick-me-up. So perhaps I'll retry it another time. Although it is picking up in the later movements, too.
[15:42] jfw: yeah, that one starts out easy and builds up to the big finish.
[18:52] jfw: "Trout" Quintet in A major, D 667 - that one goes back a ways in my memory, though no particular occasions come into focus. Probably one of his more famous works, with the melodic hook & variations coming in the fourth movement.
Day changed to 2023-09-30
[16:01] whaack: jfw: wanted to ping letting you know I'm thinking about the best time to start the next course. My thought is maybe to move my 'Christmas' plans to earlier or postpone them. I'm leaning towards postponing, with the idea of starting the course in early November if that works for you.
[17:08] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#9102 I understand.
[17:08] sourcerer: 2023-08-31 19:01:01 (#jwrd) jfw: caai: a perhaps more subtle aspect of his point is that whatever you build on linux, it's going to end up with the same "shape" as LAMP - basically being the same thing by another name and possibly more rough edges, missing pieces & bloat
[17:17] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-Aug-2023/#9106 i recall you mentioning this comparative similarity that defines many DBMS's at this point in time
[17:22] caai: i do not know much about Postgres. i only know that it is not owned by oracle, it is open source, it is known for being quite extensive in its capabilities, and it seems to have traction amongst linux users.
[17:23] jfw: caai: it does; as does mysql.
[17:24] jfw: you reckon the oracle ownership is a downside?
[17:27] dorion: mysql is fully open source too.
[17:27] caai: i have far more experience with sqlite and oracle. at this point, there has been no need for us to deviate from sqlite, however, once my business stacks on more technology, and requires more security, we will have to transition to a more comprehensive DBMS. in my experience, this doesn't require much change to the DDL, nor the DML. one just has to learn the differences and make the adjustements to
[17:27] caai: the code.
[17:28] dorion: what does oracle ownership mean in practice if it's fully open sauce ?
[17:28] caai: i suppose i have reckoned that the oracle ownership is a downside.
[17:28] caai: since EVERYBODY reads the code from cover to cover ...........
[17:29] caai: you guys are right, which is why i brought up the point
[17:29] caai: to learn
[17:30] dorion: that's why we keep you around, caai.
[17:30] jfw: I guess I don't give it much heed because I'm in no hurry whatsoever to go with the "latest" 8.x or whatever, it can be owned by cthulhu himself for all the difference it'd make to its history & present
[17:31] jfw: *bought by
[17:32] jfw: caai: there will certainly be adjustments required to switch, whether "much" or not depends on how involved your code & schemas are
[17:35] jfw: but it's superficial rather than fundamental adjustments for the most part, I'd say. perhaps as long as you don't take too much advantage of sqlite's flexible data typing.
[17:38] caai: yes, that has been my experience with these differences. it is not too painful
[17:40] caai: i have just made a point to not learn via ms access. it seems to deviate too far and much of the syntax would have to be unlearned later
[17:44] jfw: ah, not sure about its syntax but guessing similar or same as SQL Server. another drawback there is the GUI-first modality acting as a crutch.
[17:45] jfw: then "oh I can hack some VBA macros to make this work nice" and now you're locked in for sure.
[17:47] caai: yeap!
[17:48] caai: alright caballeros! time to put in my python learning time for the day. ttyl
[17:48] jfw: cheers
Day changed to 2023-09-02
[15:36] blakeeus_: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#8913 jfw: My apologies for the late response, I find that a great idea as well.
[15:36] sourcerer: 2023-08-26 16:45:16 (#jwrd) jfw: in brainstorming for blakeeus, one activity coming to mind that'd be also creative & a service to the panamanian community, that doesn't depend on further development/release of the game, could be translating articles on it into spanish
[15:36] blakeeus_: Yesterday I had a meeting with the supervisors of the project and they find the blog a fantastic idea, because it is a service that is ongoing.
[15:38] blakeeus_: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#8917 jfw: Well it is also a service because, let's say I make the blog about a specific topic, like sustainable energy, that is a "global issue" (as they say in the IB schools), so I would be raising awareness.
[15:38] sourcerer: 2023-08-26 16:51:58 (#jwrd) jfw: then documenting that process, reviewing the service & what you learned would make for interesting article(s) and would be a service, not to "the web community" but specifically the independent publishing community.
[16:48] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9141 - nice!
[16:48] sourcerer: 2023-09-02 15:36:50 (#jwrd) blakeeus_: Yesterday I had a meeting with the supervisors of the project and they find the blog a fantastic idea, because it is a service that is ongoing.
[16:51] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9142 - impressive density of trigger words there, or "callsigns for stupid" if you like, heh.
[16:51] sourcerer: 2023-09-02 15:38:59 (#jwrd) blakeeus_: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#8917 jfw: Well it is also a service because, let's say I make the blog about a specific topic, like sustainable energy, that is a "global issue" (as they say in the IB schools), so I would be raising awareness.
[16:55] jfw: blakeeus: outside of satisfying lolstitutional checkboxes though, I wonder, do you find there's anybody around who isn't already well oversaturated with awareness of such global issues? the ones that the popular press has been on about nonstop for decades?
Day changed to 2023-09-04
[01:51] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9141 -- cool.
[01:51] sourcerer: 2023-09-02 15:36:50 (#jwrd) blakeeus_: Yesterday I had a meeting with the supervisors of the project and they find the blog a fantastic idea, because it is a service that is ongoing.
[12:07] sstacks: gtvffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
[13:41] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9142 -- I would advise against making a blog about a specific topic. before saying why, perhaps it's helpful to clarify what I mean by blog. A blog is software for publishing, in our case, we're using a version of wordpress called MP-WP, which has various advantages compared to, e.g. wordpress.com
[13:41] sourcerer: 2023-09-02 15:38:59 (#jwrd) blakeeus_: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#8917 jfw: Well it is also a service because, let's say I make the blog about a specific topic, like sustainable energy, that is a "global issue" (as they say in the IB schools), so I would be raising awareness.
[13:41] dorion: "maintained" by automattic, such as proper html linking.
[13:46] dorion: if you make a blog about a specific topic, you're constraining yourself to that topic. I think it's better to make the blog about you and all your interests and thus you'll have more things to write about and with more practice you'll improve the quality of your writing, which raises the chances it'll be a service. the articles that you accumulate on your blog with be about specific topics, sure.
[20:34] whaack: caai: I have been focusing a lot on my recovery for my upper extremities. Since we have similar problems I think it would be good to share notes as I mentioned before.
[20:35] whaack: I'll try to get some more writing posted with my exercise routines etc.
[21:42] mechs: hi
Day changed to 2023-09-05
[16:06] whaack: !e view-height
[16:06] btcexplorer: block_height: 805012
[16:06] btcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 13471
[16:06] whaack sighs
[16:07] whaack: dorion: I'm interested in stem cell therapy. Maybe I could come visit Panama in the mid to late October and have an appointment with the lab you mentioned.
[16:10] dorion: any idea what's up w/ the explorer ?
[16:11] dorion: whaack, the clinic is in Medellin, though the owner is based in Panama, which is how I met him.
[16:12] dorion: s/the explorer/the node that the explorer reads from/
[16:16] whaack: I am not sure what's up with the node
[16:18] whaack: Both of my nodes are behind .. I'll see if I can look into it today
[16:19] whaack: Well I've always wanted to go to Columbia and specifically Medellin.. lol
[16:34] whaack: !e view-height
[16:34] btcexplorer: block_height: 805012
[16:34] btcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 13499
[16:35] dorion: whaack, I think he'll be in Medellin in October. either way, can set up a call with him and a consultation w/ the doctor on his staff beforehand. then, if you want, you can run what they say by your doctors in the US.
[16:35] whaack: Okay, I would certainlyu be interested in the consultation.
[16:39] whaack: !e view-height
[16:39] btcexplorer: block_height: 805024
[16:39] btcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 13376
[16:40] whaack: The node's process had died
[16:49] whaack: !e view-height
[16:49] btcexplorer: block_height: 805045
[16:49] btcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 13201
[16:51] whaack: !E view-height
[16:51] nzbtcexplorer: block_height: 804466
[16:51] nzbtcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 19422
[16:51] whaack: !e view-block 340
[16:51] whaack: !E view-block 340
[16:52] whaack: !e view-height
[16:53] whaack: trinque's paste service went down so at the moment the only available interface for the block explorer is the webpage bitcoindexplorer.com
[16:53] btcexplorer: block_height: 805053
[16:53] btcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 13082
[16:53] whaack: I am going to shift it to jfw's but that may take me a while
[18:00] jfw: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/ys8q6gy8iw - comment I left at https://ritcsec.wordpress.com/2019/12/02/apache2-keep-alive-vs-concurrent-connections/ as it's unclear if it went to moderation or they dropped it entirely.
[18:10] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9188 -- yeah, looks like his website and wot.deedbot.org are down too.
[18:10] sourcerer: 2023-09-05 16:53:13 (#jwrd) whaack: trinque's paste service went down so at the moment the only available interface for the block explorer is the webpage bitcoindexplorer.com
[20:40] jfw: whaack: why would it take a while to switch to mine, wouldn't it just be a change of url?
[20:41] jfw: at least to use the php frontend, if for some reason opening a plain tcp socket is difficult
Day changed to 2023-09-06
[19:12] sstacks:
Day changed to 2023-09-07
[15:54] jfw: https://doc.dovecot.org/configuration_manual/authentication/auth_penalty/ - dovecot: <del>secure</del> stupid by default.
[18:16] jfw: https://dovecot.org/pipermail/dovecot/2019-January/114200.html - and their suggested way to disable it doesn't work and adds worse delays.
[18:20] jfw: guy provides a detailed and useful report of how broken the thing is, dev responds asking for extraneous information and the thread dies.
[21:00] jfw: the dovecot code continues to be infuriating; indirection and misdirection and most general possible (yet oddly specific, and not meaningfully user-accessible) structure at every level, code paths bouncing around between different source files and libraries and micro-services
[21:02] jfw: the disabling anvil-auth-penalty listener suggestion is clearly a workaround, basically crippling the offending code by removing something it depends on without actually turning it off
[21:06] jfw: "anvil" near as I can tell is basically a hash table in an rpc server for the special purpose of tracking this connection limit & penalty state (showing what I mean by simultaneously most general and oddly specific)
[21:07] jfw: and they REALLY want to cause some kind of delay after auth failures - for one thing because they imagine this will do something for timing attacks, would you believe it !
[21:08] jfw: of course there's no "sleep" call or equivalent to be found anywhere, it looks more like direct diddling of I/O loop parameters
[21:09] jfw: it might be reasonably possible to remove the whole thing, basically src/auth/auth-penalty.c and anything that touches it. but these approaches sometimes explode into "the entire thing".
[21:09] jfw: (entire codebase.)
[21:19] jfw: "If the IP is in login_trusted_networks (e.g. webmail), skip any authentication penalties" is a lie
[21:20] jfw: but it's possible to do nowadays by even more ornate and unexplained mumbo-jumbo, what more could one possibly ask.
Day changed to 2023-09-08
[02:15] jfw: it also ties in to this elaborate "policy server" business where they call it "tarpitting" - as if anyone other than the poor user or administrator is going to be hurt by it.
[14:12] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9200 -- maybe send an email to the useful guy sharing some our your work on it and invite him over to #jwrd ?
[14:12] sourcerer: 2023-09-07 18:20:36 (#jwrd) jfw: guy provides a detailed and useful report of how broken the thing is, dev responds asking for extraneous information and the thread dies.
[14:14] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9204 -- lolz.
[14:14] sourcerer: 2023-09-07 21:07:34 (#jwrd) jfw: and they REALLY want to cause some kind of delay after auth failures - for one thing because they imagine this will do something for timing attacks, would you believe it !
[14:16] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9201 -- pretty good description.
[14:16] sourcerer: 2023-09-07 21:00:03 (#jwrd) jfw: the dovecot code continues to be infuriating; indirection and misdirection and most general possible (yet oddly specific, and not meaningfully user-accessible) structure at every level, code paths bouncing around between different source files and libraries and micro-services
[15:25] jfw: got a patch done that makes a fairly clean cut of it I think. builds in dev & target environments & seems to work fine.
[15:27] jfw: next it might be wise to look at actual soundness to timing attack at least in whatever builtin password checker
[15:37] jfw: on the "crimes of the code" I can add: callback functions everywhere, and never even accompanied by comments regarding the meanings of their arguments or what they're supposed to do.
[15:39] jfw: (makes it impossible to know what code a function is calling, without also understanding the dynamic context of that function's invocation.)
[15:55] jfw: looks like it is timing safe actually, at least the comparison of provided to reference password material seems to go through a mem_equals_timing_safe which does bytewise xor-and-accumulate.
[16:03] jfw: that function also has this attempt to stop improper compiler optimization using a volatile global variable, haven't seen that before.
[16:12] jfw: python's compare_digest does something similar; php 5.6's hash_equals does not
[16:19] jfw: I'd guess it's one of those things, "no current compiler would dare to make such a dastardly optimization" but in theory the language standard would allow it
[16:24] jfw: but then I could argue their version doesn't go far enough - the accumulator variable needs to be volatile the whole time, not just copied into a volatile at the end of the loop!
[16:31] jfw: dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9211 - good idea; any questions you have in mind to ask or just play it by ear?
[16:31] sourcerer: 2023-09-08 14:12:51 (#jwrd) dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9200 -- maybe send an email to the useful guy sharing some our your work on it and invite him over to #jwrd ?
[18:24] dorion: jfw, I was thinking more along the lines of, "hey, you asked a really good question, got a response with lots left to be desired. I had similar experience w/ dovecot people, decided to create a fork to suit my needs. I'm reaching out because maybe there's some common ground where we could work together."
[18:31] jfw: dorion: alright
Day changed to 2023-09-09
[15:58] jfw: I'm recalling a conversation, perhaps involving billymg, regarding concerns about drafted text being lost from html input forms on page reload or navigation, where mircea_popescu said something like "wtf, what works that way? mp-wp doesn't lose things like that" (haven't yet found the ref)
[15:59] jfw: I was amazed and thought this was some magical mp-wp feature, on the basis of experience with any number of horrible websites
[16:02] jfw: I've now found some interesting points: it's not any special mp-wp feature, firefox at least normally remembers/caches input values properly like that, unless the form structure changes significantly enough between loads that it can't meaningfully remap the values - or unless something deliberately prevents it from saving them
[16:05] jfw: and what might that something be? why, nothing less than php itself which perhaps helpfully attempts to suppress caching when sessions (i.e. stateful interactions) are in play - but in the default "nocache" php.ini setting - which is the only option that really stops caching at all - it includes this very dubious
[16:05] jfw: "no-store" in the Cache-Control cocktail
[16:07] jfw: no-store is intended to prevent any caches in the path from saving anything at all, for sekoority reasons; as opposed to the more reasonable no-cache which just prevents them from serving cached content without revalidating.
[16:08] jfw: in HTTP/1.1 RFC theory, the browser may still save stuff in "history buffers", but in firefox practice it evidently doesn't, and form inputs evaporate.
[16:12] jfw: however, if a particular php script emits its own Cache-Control via the header function, it will replace the php defaults, as any call to header will by default replace earlier values of the given header. so mp-wp dodges the bullet because it sets its own anti-caching headers which do *not* include "no-store".
[16:13] jfw: testing these effects was a particular pain because firefox would impishly remember, forget or fabricate cache policy depending more on how exactly you loaded the page than on what the server was specifying, the details there are rather gruesome.
[16:17] jfw: direct/fresh url bar entry, restoring a closed tab, simple reload, and "full" reload (shift-ctrl-r) each behave differently; full reload doesn't actually work in this case for testing, only fresh entry, and tab restoration gets it into a state where it disregards prior no-store instructions entirely and persistently.
[16:21] jfw: o look, I was going to ping billymg.com but it's gone, nothing but ""Welcome to nginx!" placeholder page there.
[16:23] jfw: ah, needed a hosts file update.
[16:37] jfw: http://billymg.com/2022/02/running-mp-wp-on-a-modern-musl-based-gentoo/comment-page-1/#comment-598 pending moderation.
[17:05] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9156 alright. how would you like to go about doing so? where do you plan posting your exercise routines?
[17:05] sourcerer: 2023-09-04 20:34:58 (#jwrd) whaack: caai: I have been focusing a lot on my recovery for my upper extremities. Since we have similar problems I think it would be good to share notes as I mentioned before.
[17:10] dorion: http://dorion-mode.com/2023/09/junto-picking-the-lock-of-your-silly-con-valley-provisioned-digital-cage-and-getting-started-owning-your-computer-is-easier-than-it-seems/
[21:55] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-dovecot-initial-release-aka-version-240/#comment-2462 for the dovecot patch.
[22:00] jfw: dorion: I like the title
Day changed to 2023-09-10
[15:43] dorion: jfw, thanks.
Day changed to 2023-09-11
[16:25] sstacks: morning!
[16:35] sstacks: jfw:how is vacations?
[16:50] dorion: good morning sstacks.
[16:50] dorion: thank god it's monday.
[16:56] jfw: sstacks: well, I've kept pretty busy on software & networks stuff so dunno if much vacation yet but the change of surroundings has been pleasant.
[17:05] jfw: my fingers seem perhaps to heal faster between fresh bouts of blistering, which basically means getting to heal at all; but at five weeks out of the swampy climate now and two or three of those fresh bouts during the interval, it seems unlikely that the climate was the only or even controlling factor.
[17:05] sourcerer: 2021-06-30 21:52:21 (#jwrd) jfw: I did once at dorion's suggestion try icing my fingers for what I'd been told was 'dishydrotic eczema', because I was willing to try ~anything; was rather painful & didn't help. but ymmv.
[17:07] jfw: it seems interesting that all affected areas (3 fingers atm, mainly between outermost knuckle and tip) break out in tandem
[17:09] jfw: unless it's just made me so sensitized to humidity that one or two rainy days is enough to trigger. but no, the latest ones started just before the past two wet days.
[17:11] jfw: ^ that was extending the earlier "climate as controlling factor" thought, not the immediately prior "interesting"
[17:15] jfw: how've you been sstacks?
[22:20] sstacks: Glad to hear from you guys
[22:21] sstacks: jfw:im sorry you still having troubles with the eczema. Bought a shower filter to see if this helps my wife, im not very hopeful.Considering on getting a more sophisticated filter for the kitchen. But im little bit skeptical.Maybe you guys have any useful opinions on that kind of stuff.
[22:25] sstacks: dorion: Ive been meditating on our pending meeting of us three. Ive reached to some logical conclution on how to get more students on the program. Basically I think there must be some additional effort on highlighting threats and communicating them in a digestable form.
[22:26] sstacks: This is a general commentary, we shall get deep on a more personal gathering
Day changed to 2023-09-12
[15:14] whaack: I've struggled with eczema and this is what I did the last time I had a breakout. I've been eczema free for about a year and a half now.
[15:14] whaack: The first step is not using any soap on my hands. There is not such a good way to wash your hands when you have eczema - my understanding is that you need to let the body rebuild a layer of skin. Until then soap and perhaps even water is your enemy
[15:14] whaack: Note that my eczema breakout happened the same time they required to put alcohol to enter any establishment
[15:14] whaack: The next thing is that you need a hydrophobic layer at all times on your skin in the affected area until your body is able to build its own
[15:15] whaack: the best product for this in my opinion is petroleum jelly. Just keep putting it on all the time, you can't really use too much.
[15:15] whaack: With these two methods I was able to get rid of my eczema that plagued me for 6-12 months. I had other doctors that prescribed me cortizone creams and all this other junk that maybe gave for temporary relief but didn't solve the problem
[15:15] whaack: It was my GP that was able to figure it out and make the connection between increased soap use from the covid hysteria and my eczema
[15:15] whaack: You can get PH neutral soap in the meantime to occasionally wash your hands and I also recommend some gloves for washing dishes if that's a regular chore for you
[15:25] whaack: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#8912 << I let this message slip by. My apologies. Yes I am interested
[15:25] sourcerer: 2023-08-26 16:27:24 (#jwrd) dorion: whaack, did you consider further going ahead w/ the advanced JWRD training ?
[16:46] jfw: whaack, what I have (and perhaps sstacks's wife has, from what I hear) isn't actually eczema, they overloaded the term. 'dishydrosis' is more specific though also not apt as it's not a lack of hydration, though it can look like it once the damaged skin gets cut off. anyway, I've indeed found plain petroleum jelly works as well or better than any pharmaceutical stuff for temporary relief. gloves
[16:46] jfw: help basically to protect once the skin itself is compromised but I have not found them to stop or slow the progression of the blistering. I suspect there must be some kind of internal trigger for it, unidentified, possibly patient-specific, not just soap. but, I guess I haven't tried fully abstaining from personal hygiene, no, lol.
[16:48] jfw: (by "gets cut off" I mean in thef sense of cut from the body's resources, allowed to die & drop off like autumn leaves, not cut with a knife or something.)
[16:52] jfw: the ray of hope I have is that it went away on its own some time into my 2020 retreat to maine and later venturing into florida, coming back in force some time into my return to panama this year. thus my current 2-month trip is in part an occasion for better data collection.
[16:53] jfw: guess I should have written an article already, huh.
Day changed to 2023-09-13
[15:32] jfw: after a year+, the FreeFileSync derp shows no signs of having done anything about the gaping security hole that JWRD found at our own testing expense and generously reported to him. What he has done is made all kinds of other tweaks and started
[15:32] jfw: contradicting himself on the licensing of the program: the website header still declares 'open source', the code download still ships with open source licenses, but "the standard version of FreeFileSync is intended for private use only" and "In order to allow FreeFileSync in a commercial setting, it is required to license a number of devices for installation". By sending him euros, of course,
[15:32] jfw: anything but btc.
[15:34] jfw: needless to say, there's no sign of anything resembling a working build process document published either.
[15:36] jfw: I'd say the case is looking stronger for switching to putty+rsync for backups and putty+unison for the shared repository sync scenario
[15:43] jfw: the first will force an rsync gport, and the second will give the existing but unused ocaml gport a raison d'etre
[15:44] jfw: the upside of requiring those server-side code additions is it'll probably be faster than FFS ever could be just based on sftp-server
[15:52] jfw: I guess I should look at whether unison can be run in a one-way mode akin to rsync, so as to stone two birds in one hit.
[15:55] jfw: dorion: not saying any of this needs doing right now, but for planning the next steps.
[21:48] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9272 -- cool, it's going to be 0.15 btc for the 10 sessions. this time it will be more important for you to have the hardware on hand. bearing that in mind, when do you think will be a good time for you to start ? first week of november ?
[21:48] sourcerer: 2023-09-12 15:25:27 (#jwrd) whaack: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#8912 << I let this message slip by. My apologies. Yes I am interested
[21:50] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9280 -- ferfuxsake.
[21:50] sourcerer: 2023-09-13 15:32:53 (#jwrd) jfw: contradicting himself on the licensing of the program: the website header still declares 'open source', the code download still ships with open source licenses, but "the standard version of FreeFileSync is intended for private use only" and "In order to allow FreeFileSync in a commercial setting, it is required to license a number of devices for installation". By s
[21:51] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9283 -- alright.
[21:51] sourcerer: 2023-09-13 15:36:43 (#jwrd) jfw: I'd say the case is looking stronger for switching to putty+rsync for backups and putty+unison for the shared repository sync scenario
[21:51] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9287 -- alright, makes sense to me. thanks for the report.
[21:51] sourcerer: 2023-09-13 15:55:38 (#jwrd) jfw: dorion: not saying any of this needs doing right now, but for planning the next steps.
Day changed to 2023-09-17
[12:46] jfw_travel: dorion: extended winds night before last through yesterday from that hurricane Lee. no damage to our property but lost power late yesterday morning, still no word on time to restore from the utility. could return to the city if that doesn't change. nice and sunny now at least, upper 50s F.
[16:50] dorion: jfw_travel, alright. thanks for the update. sounds freshingly sunny and chilly at least.
[18:37] jfw: aand we're back. (power a couple hrs ago, network just now.)
Day changed to 2023-09-18
[21:22] whaack: Let me think about a start date. I think I will go visit the states for Christmas so I'm not sure if November is the best time to start.
[21:22] whaack: http://ztkfg.com/2023/09/who-is-your-daddy-and-what-does-he-do/ << I have another article in the oven as well
[21:23] whaack: Pushing forward with speech to text
[21:23] whaack: It's not too terrible for writing. But of course it has to be accompanied with edits from the keyboard
[21:26] whaack: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9195 << I just meant that it was not on the top of my to do list, not that it was a difficult programming challenge
[21:26] sourcerer: 2023-09-05 20:40:47 (#jwrd) jfw: whaack: why would it take a while to switch to mine, wouldn't it just be a change of url?
[21:26] whaack: By the way I don't think I mentioned that I'm in Costa Rica now! It feels good to be back
Day changed to 2023-09-19
[00:24] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9303 - heh, alright. never having been one with an especially strict to-do list, I usually relish the chance to cross something off on the rare occasion that it's an easy fix. evidently deedbot.org is no hurry to be fixed either (domain not showing expired but A records gone)
[00:24] sourcerer: 2023-09-18 21:26:02 (#jwrd) whaack: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9195 << I just meant that it was not on the top of my to do list, not that it was a difficult programming challenge
[00:25] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9299 - we could probably start sooner if that'd be better for you, or were you thinking more of pushing later?
[00:25] sourcerer: 2023-09-18 21:22:09 (#jwrd) whaack: Let me think about a start date. I think I will go visit the states for Christmas so I'm not sure if November is the best time to start.
[00:26] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9305 - escaped again!
[00:26] sourcerer: 2023-09-18 21:26:44 (#jwrd) whaack: By the way I don't think I mentioned that I'm in Costa Rica now! It feels good to be back
[00:29] jfw: whaack: I was keyboard shopping recently due to my ongoing kvm trouble, going for the cheapest for starters until the problem can be narrowed down, but was wondering what's the issue with the common ergonomic keyboards of the shallow v-shaped style (Microsoft Natural and clones, I guess)? not enough edge-to-center slope to get the wrists into a
[00:29] sourcerer: 2023-08-19 22:29:59 (#jwrd) jfw: unfortunately I've already seen some failures from the KVM setup, like keys getting stuck repeating for a couple seconds while the keyboard resets or something, and switching hotkey sequences not activating if I type them too fast. actually the two seem related. first hope is that it's the keyboard's usb adapting at fault and a pure ps/2 kb might help.
[00:29] jfw: more vertical pose?
[00:35] jfw: I'll say I'm unconvinced that forearm pronation / cubital tunnel compression is such a universal problem as you suggest, though not contesting that it may be for you
[00:39] jfw: possibly some people have stronger "need to move or relieve pressures or fidget" pain signals, or are more attuned to them, helping to build better habits or movement or posture in subtle ways such that less long-term damage is done
[00:42] jfw: maybe my hands start killing me next year and I eat my words, but I've made it past 33 with no sign of this particular problem, and with enough actual problems that it's hard to care much about the potential ones
[00:43] jfw: still, if there's a not too costly adjustment possible on the keyboard side, I'd consider it
[00:51] jfw: dorion: hey, I just had a message seemingly get accepted by gmail, what a concept. maybe they got the memo after all
[01:11] whaack: Yes the problem that I would have any keyboard that is not split is that there's no way to tilt it so you have to pronate your arms. It's true that there is lots of anatomical variation, and one talk I heard from a doctor said that the brachial plexus specifically has lots of variation between people.
[01:13] whaack: That said, usually with any athletic activity it is bad form to hold muscles in tension for extended periods of time when it is not necessary.
[01:19] whaack: I understand your point about not being able to tackle potential problems when there are ones that you have present one hundred percent. And RSI seems like something that some people are just bulletproof to.
[01:27] whaack: Although maybe those 'bulletproof people' have lots of loss of function in their later years because they didn't have the nervous system ringing the alarm all the time. I think that's kind of what you are getting at here http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9316
[01:27] sourcerer: 2023-09-19 00:39:43 (#jwrd) jfw: possibly some people have stronger "need to move or relieve pressures or fidget" pain signals, or are more attuned to them, helping to build better habits or movement or posture in subtle ways such that less long-term damage is done
[01:29] whaack: In personal hygiene goals, I need to fix my blog backup systems. Putting that in the channel to hold myself more accountable.
[01:30] jfw: well, it seemed to me you were already at the point where there was long-term damage accumulated, hence persistent pain set off by some trigger rather than some proportionate force
[01:31] jfw: I agree holding one position / tension for an extended time, especially when preoccupied with mental activities rather than specifically attending to the tension as in stretching etc, is harmful.
[01:32] jfw: my thought is that some notice earlier when they're doing that, basically
[01:33] jfw: I can't imagine many keyboardists are really typing full out all the time and don't have ample time to move hands around, outside of transcription activities perhaps. I certainly don't.
[01:34] jfw: don't hold my hands at the kb for extended times uninterrupted, that is. more so when I was into gaming.
[01:34] whaack: Yes, also I should note that I was playing a lot of guitar when I was injured. And I had constant neck tension from been rolled around in the surf
[01:35] whaack: If you lift your hands and return them to a normal position in between typing sentences or whatever, that may be enough to completely remove any problems
[01:36] whaack: My physical therapist insists that by the time you have chronic pain there is already a lot of cumulative damage
[01:37] jfw: makes sense
[01:37] whaack: And that the only way to really prevent RSI is prophylactically
[01:37] whaack: But it is tough because it is a problem that is totally invisible until it's too late
[01:38] whaack: I say this with the full intention of trying to recover, I'm not giving up on the idea that it's possible
[01:39] jfw: yeah, sometimes what's accumulated can likewise be gradually reduced
[01:40] whaack: The main issue is that it seems that scar tissue is always more susceptible to reinjury
[01:42] jfw: really? that doesn't seem so thinking of skin scars, since they're a thickening/toughening
[01:42] jfw: or fractured bones from what I heard
[01:42] whaack: I think that's the case with soft tissue specifically, so with regards to tendons and ligaments
[01:43] whaack: They also don't get good blood flow
[01:43] whaack: My problem though is specifically with my nerves, I believe that at least
[01:44] jfw: the nerves themselves rather than surrounding material pinching them?
[01:44] whaack: The reason being that I have such an unreliable pain signal. So it seems that the wiring that transmits the signal is what's wrong
[01:45] whaack: Yeah perhaps that is one way to look at it. There is nothing wrong with a nerve per se just something that is pinching it
[01:46] whaack: That can cause a negative feedback loop if the nerve pinched is the pipe used to drain blood, for example
[01:46] jfw: not quite following
[01:48] jfw: like a nerve that triggers an outflow of blood, its signal is reduced, causing more blood pressure around it and increasing the pinch?
[01:49] jfw: (that'd be a positive feedback loop, technically)
[01:50] whaack: Yes, although if I understand correctly the nerve itself has veins, so it's not just that it signals to drain blood but actually participate in that training itself
[01:50] whaack: You're right, it would be a positive feedback loop that has a negative effect
[01:52] whaack: I should emphasize the 'if I understand correctly' it's very much likely that I don't
[01:53] whaack: in that draining* itself
[02:04] jfw: well hm, a neuron is a single possibly very long & branching cell, so it can't itself contain veins, but if a nerve is a large bundle of those individual 'wires' then I suppose it could
[02:39] whaack: I'm off to bed, but the conversation so far has shown that I have a few things unclear here. I'll elaborate later.
[22:53] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9319 -- I just tested and got a message through too. we'll see how long it last I suppose.
[22:53] sourcerer: 2023-09-19 00:51:42 (#jwrd) jfw: dorion: hey, I just had a message seemingly get accepted by gmail, what a concept. maybe they got the memo after all
Day changed to 2023-09-21
[02:24] mechs: nice presentation dorion, found it a bit funny that you left the xrandr terminal in fullscreen
Day changed to 2023-09-24
[03:10] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2023/#8629 - brand new straight ps/2 keyboard doesn't fix it, ugh. still can't quite nail down the problem exactly, but something like: two taps of the Ctrl key is the kvm's 'hotkey prefix', at which point it helpfully cuts the numlock light as feedback that it's indeed listening, and a third Ctrl dismisses it. So in some cases if you single tap Ctrl, then
[03:10] sourcerer: 2023-08-19 22:29:59 (#jwrd) jfw: unfortunately I've already seen some failures from the KVM setup, like keys getting stuck repeating for a couple seconds while the keyboard resets or something, and switching hotkey sequences not activating if I type them too fast. actually the two seem related. first hope is that it's the keyboard's usb adapting at fault and a pure ps/2 kb might help.
[03:10] jfw: type a normal chord like Ctrl-C, it enters that 'attention' mode, with the 'c' stuck repeating to the computer; another Ctrl re-lights numlock but keeps repeating until you also press 'c'.
[03:12] jfw: ugh, sometimes the opposite order (ctrl-c followed by single ctrl) sends it straight into 'attention' mode too
[03:26] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Sep-2023/#9360 - dual/extended screen mode with the terminal on one of them, or what? iirc that ubuntu interface keeps everything sorta-fullscreen by default
[03:26] sourcerer: 2023-09-21 02:24:14 (#jwrd) mechs: nice presentation dorion, found it a bit funny that you left the xrandr terminal in fullscreen
[23:28] jfw: Schubert piano sonata in A, D 959, movement 3 - "Scherzo. Allegro vivace - Trio. Un poco piu lento" - which I don't think I've heard before, has a theme/pattern that I could've sworn I knew from a Chopin something.
Day changed to 2023-09-26
[00:34] jfw: continuing the Schubert piano works tour, "4 Impromptus, D 935" comes recommended (and I'd definitely heard them before). #1 in f minor: fine but nothing particularly memorable. #2 in A-flat major: my favorite, bringing a simple, pure, unadorned and unashamed beauty in a wistful, contemplative mood. #3 in B-flat major: the theme-and-variations form, filling 12 minutes (in my Serkin 1979 recording)
[00:34] jfw: without overstaying its welcome, moving through a variety of tempos, moods and degrees of ornamentation before a final satisfying return to where it started and a serene finish. #4 in f minor: the "flurry of notes" style which seems to me typical of later classical to romantic period works, the "technical arms race" of the day something like the "solid walls of sound" in popular music of more
[00:34] jfw: recent centuries. but well employed; this one gets you moving.
Day changed to 2023-09-27
[15:35] jfw: Schubert Piano Sonata in B-flat major, D 960 - the first word that comes to mind is "relaxing" ; except I was already pretty well relaxed and more hoping for a morning pick-me-up. So perhaps I'll retry it another time. Although it is picking up in the later movements, too.
[15:42] jfw: yeah, that one starts out easy and builds up to the big finish.
[18:52] jfw: "Trout" Quintet in A major, D 667 - that one goes back a ways in my memory, though no particular occasions come into focus. Probably one of his more famous works, with the melodic hook & variations coming in the fourth movement.
Day changed to 2023-09-30
[16:01] whaack: jfw: wanted to ping letting you know I'm thinking about the best time to start the next course. My thought is maybe to move my 'Christmas' plans to earlier or postpone them. I'm leaning towards postponing, with the idea of starting the course in early November if that works for you.