Day changed to 2023-05-02
[15:06] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7214 - greetings sstacks; if I may ask, what happened to Monday?
[15:06] sourcerer: 2023-04-29 04:03:17 (#jwrd) sstacks: whaack: my brother.. on monday most likely. Ill try on Sunday.. but weekends are very difficult for me
[15:09] sstacks: Hey Jacob, whaack and I are on zoom doing the hw
[15:13] sstacks: So, atm we are stuck
[15:15] sstacks: We are trying to run gbw-init.
[15:15] sstacks: We set up the GBW_RECEPIENT succesfully after creating a gpg key
[15:16] sstacks: We input GBW_TEMPDIR=/tmp
[15:16] sstacks: And tried running gbw-init again
[15:17] sstacks: We tried also gbw-init mywallet as adding an argument
[15:17] sstacks: using gbw-init we get an output: missing filename for encrypted archive.
[15:18] sstacks: by using gbw-init mywallet we get this output: mktemp: permission denied
[15:20] sstacks: We didint yesterday as i was out of reach area. So we decided to meet this morning
[15:21] sstacks: we are stuck on the error of permission denied after inputing gbw-init mywallet
[15:23] jfw: sstacks: the variables are GBW_RECIPIENT and GBW_TMPDIR, are they spelled correctly?
[15:24] sstacks: Yikes, i think that it
[15:24] sstacks: Ill be on it now
[15:25] sstacks: that made it
[15:25] jfw: nice!
[15:25] sstacks: thanks!
[15:25] jfw: np
[15:30] jfw: guess I better add validation of those parameters, probably in gbw-init
[15:37] sstacks: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/vdsrndvgah
[15:39] sstacks: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/9ymvmu6t3c
[15:40] sstacks: First url: public key | Second url: private key. This is for homework from session 8
[15:42] jfw: sstacks: looks good
[15:46] sstacks: So i just was Whaack's hands. Im learning from him too
[15:50] sstacks: whaack: http://bitcoindexplorer.com/ not loading an address with BIG tx count
[15:51] sstacks: whaack: 1Kr6QSydW9bFQG1mXiPNNu6WpJGmUa9i1g .. this is the one we used
[15:54] sstacks: whaack: on a second try on the mirror page, did work!
[16:41] sstacks: Ok, we stuck again. We are trying to sign a transaction to 1Ga1esBitcoinWa11etXXXXXXXXXWS7nQa
[16:41] sstacks: As we made an "output" filename with these variables:
[16:41] sstacks: Address: "address"
[16:42] sstacks: Value: 837.421355
[16:42] sstacks: TXID : "txid"
[16:42] sstacks: Index : 3
[16:43] sstacks: So this are the variables we put on the "outputs" file. And now we trying to run:
[16:43] sstacks: gbw-signer send "amount" "address"
[16:43] sstacks: We tried as well: gbw-signer send "address" "amount"
[16:44] sstacks: We gettint this error: not a number: ""
[16:54] jfw: for starters, it's address followed by amount (value) ie the second form you gave there
[16:55] jfw: not sure if you actually used quotes in the outputs file but don't
[16:57] jfw: maybe check also that the contents of the fee and change files look sensible
[16:58] jfw: the error is certainly correct that the empty string is not a number, but hard to tell so far what is the context.
[17:28] sstacks: jfw: Thanks for reply. We are not using the quotes.
[17:28] sstacks: We should set the fee text-file in a certain way?
[17:32] jfw: sstacks: looking back at it, gbw-init wasn't even covered in session 8 so it looks like the idea was to use an existing wallet tree set up during the in-class practice
[17:35] jfw: sstacks: but you were out for session 8, so we got you caught up on the installation during session 9 but looks like we didn't do the whole wallet tree setup practice.
[17:36] jfw: so: yes, the fee file needs to contain the transaction fee to pay; and the change file needs to contain the change address.
[17:36] jfw: gbw-init prompts for them to speed up the setup, but doesn't really validate.
[17:37] sstacks: Ok so we are good with the change txtfile
[17:38] sstacks: We added the fee amount on the fee txt-file: 0.00015
[17:38] sstacks: This is the error now after trying to sign a tx: "missing fields in output: "Address : 1ABxxxx" (the address we made)
[17:40] jfw: ha, I think I see the misunderstanding
[17:41] jfw: "The outputs table is awk-style, that is, with fields separated by one or more space or tab characters and records separated by linefeeds."
[17:41] sstacks: oh ok, so there must be a line between each field
[17:41] jfw: then where it says, "Address : address to which the output was sent, in the usual Base58" etc., this is documenting what those fields are, not showing the literal format
[17:42] jfw: each *output* is on its own line, and each line contains all four of those fields separated by spaces/tabs.
[17:42] jfw: there are no headers ("Address" etc.)
[17:43] sstacks: so plain values instead with no headers
[17:43] jfw: naked values.
[17:43] sstacks: gotcha
[17:49] sstacks: We getting this output now: ERROR: invalid base58 digit:Â #\1
[17:50] sstacks: We now setting the output file as in one single lines, values separated by a single space.
[17:52] jfw: sstacks, the unicode that's getting mixed in there makes it a bit hard to read but let's see
[17:53] jfw: 1 is a valid base58 digit so something doesn't add up
[17:54] jfw: you're sure it's a 1 not an l (letter el) ?
[17:58] sstacks: Yopu were right
[17:58] sstacks: I typed an L instead of a 1
[17:58] jfw: heh, and that'd be why the L isn't allowed.
[17:59] jfw: well, the lowercase one. the uppercase is!
[18:02] sstacks: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/3a6a3wm5ha
[18:03] sstacks: txids from the transactions txtfile .. from the session 8 hw.
[18:03] sstacks: sorry, not txids
[18:06] sstacks: we made it thru that one. So, both of the stuck cases were caused by bad typo
[18:07] sstacks: Is theres a way i could get this sessions input and output history?
[18:16] jfw: sstacks: the shell session? you can't get output history after the fact, would need to be using something like tmux/screen or script
[18:17] jfw: for input history at least at the shell level you can do "history 1" and redirect it to a file
[18:18] sstacks: like "history 1 > input.history"?
[18:22] jfw: yup
[18:23] jfw: 1 is the starting line number, else it just does the last 10 or so
Day changed to 2023-05-05
[15:24] caai: jwrd: would you like to meet to review the steps to start offering the 'Concierge Service'? the world needs it. we could do a 1-hour session to nail down the offering and steps to market it. i am available for a coffee/limonade this weekend. quedo pendiente a sus comentarios
[18:44] jfw: caai: I'm down for that, or we could hold the discussion here to maximize the future value of the words, then still go for un cafe o limonada if so inclined
[18:48] jfw: one step taken on the tech side is being ready to furnish the list of available outputs for any given address, though it's not yet fully nailed down.
[18:53] jfw: caai: the main competing demands are the ongoing restructure & delivery of training, and that we need to get the email and LAMP stack project done already, and those generally take priority because there's actual money on them already rather than as-yet unproven need.
[18:54] jfw: caai: I'm inclined to agree with you about the world needing it; the less certain part is whether the world will perceive it and be willing to pay enough
[18:56] jfw: though on the bright side, it doesn't seem to require that much more R&D investment beyond what's already cooked or cooking.
Day changed to 2023-05-06
[17:56] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7301-- i have had various conversations with people that know of the jwrd operation training. they freely share their opinions with me. the barrier to entry is time/inertia rather than finances. let us be optimistic and say it is time.
[17:56] sourcerer: 2023-05-05 18:54:56 (#jwrd) jfw: caai: I'm inclined to agree with you about the world needing it; the less certain part is whether the world will perceive it and be willing to pay enough
[18:01] caai: nevertheless, they are aware of the continually increasing encroachment of governments and banks.
[18:03] jfw: caai: right, it's not that they don't *have* the money. you think they perceive the risks of the $50 gizmo "solution" such that we're more than just an overpriced version of same?
[18:04] caai: we in this forum are all aware that in order to gain freedom and autonomy one must become computer literate. but, let's be honest, it is not easy. it requires a significant sacrifice.
[18:05] jfw: yeah, one has to give up at least a couple netflix episodes a week
[18:05] jfw: that's like 10 youtubes or 100 tiktoks!
[18:05] caai: i am sure they would be willing to pay for a jwrd to set up and maintain a node in thier abode.
[18:05] caai: hahaha
[18:06] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7309 -- do you really think it is that simple?
[18:06] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:05:28 (#jwrd) jfw: that's like 10 youtubes or 100 tiktoks!
[18:07] dorion: oh, hai caai !
[18:08] caai: in short, the product, which is the most difficult part, already exists
[18:09] jfw: yes, and no; giving up addictions (such as whatever less productive things are preventing people from learning about what's important) is indeed as simple as just not doing it anymore, but the psychological resistance is hard to overcome.
[18:09] caai: it is just a matter of setting a price and thinking through the details of the maintenance
[18:10] jfw: caai: but I see your point and not arguing that we shouldn't have an entry with lower time/mental costs.
[18:12] caai: i agree. if computer literacy is necessary in the 21st century, no matter how difficult it might be, just start learning even if it is a little everyday/week
[18:12] caai: that is my way of thinking, and i know a lot more than i did when i first met you
[18:15] jfw: "psychological resistance is hard to overcome" - besides that (or because of it), it tends to require a change of environment (distancing from the things or people that feed the bad habits) and some real pressure (internal or external)
[18:16] jfw: caai: but go on, if you had more thoughts on the next steps
[18:17] jfw: caai: btw, we'll likely be at the panamigos sunset thing today if you'd like to join
[18:19] jfw: 4pm, La Fisheria, Isla Flamenco, Amador, "dressy casual"
[18:20] caai: in order to determine the price and terms, i think you/we must think through; 1. cost and time involved in the inital set up. 2. cost and time involved in routine maintenance (does this include 1 transaction per month, 0 transactions per month? 3. cost and time involved in ad hoc requests (e.g., cost for additional transactions, when people forget pw/keys which will happen, when people delete
[18:20] caai: their wallets which will happen) 4. cost and time involved when equipment eventually fails
[18:21] caai: i would consider that this is for elite clients that are very well off. you are not trying to reach everybody.
[18:21] jfw: indeed
[18:22] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7323 -- cool, thanks. i will consider going
[18:22] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:17:34 (#jwrd) jfw: caai: btw, we'll likely be at the panamigos sunset thing today if you'd like to join
[18:24] jfw: your list 1-4 sounds pretty complete to me
[18:28] jfw: I guess the minimal kit would be the one offline machine with trng; then we can bring bridging machinery (fiber, wifi machine or edgerouter etc) when visiting
[18:28] caai: we need to expand the network. if people are not willing to learn, we have to expand it via another means without compromising the protocol, yet also making it worth your time.
[18:30] jfw: extracting profits from laziness, it sounds effective and quite ethically palatable too (recognizing where people are while providing correct incentives)
[18:31] caai: i agree. you are providing a VERY valuable service. and yes, it is where people are at currently.
[18:32] jfw: heck, even the TRNG could be brought in the "doctor's kit", scarce resource that it presently is.
[18:34] caai: yes, it could be brought in as well
[18:35] jfw: now the idea on data recovery is what, we keep backups but encrypted using a password that they alone have? they lose the data, we recover from their pw; they lose the pw, we re-generate and do a new backup; as long as they don't lose both at once
[18:37] jfw: because if we "solve" that last part ie have both the data and encryption password "just in case", it becomes actually our coin, not theirs and thus much higher trust/risk profile
[18:40] caai: this is a crucial point that must be thought through. in the end, it will require them trusting you to some degree. to what degree is the question. keep in mind, at the moment, they are completely trusting banks/exchanges that actually own their currencty/coin
[18:41] caai: currency/coin*
[18:42] jfw: I suppose they could give a password copy to a trusted family member or associate
[18:42] caai: that is a viable option
[18:45] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7302 -- right, it's more business development and sales than softwware or hardware development.
[18:45] sourcerer: 2023-05-05 18:56:46 (#jwrd) jfw: though on the bright side, it doesn't seem to require that much more R&D investment beyond what's already cooked or cooking.
[18:45] jfw: (I'd say "or a trusted lawyer" but better not presume the existence of a square circle in a business discussion!)
[18:46] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7307 -- word.
[18:46] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:04:04 (#jwrd) caai: we in this forum are all aware that in order to gain freedom and autonomy one must become computer literate. but, let's be honest, it is not easy. it requires a significant sacrifice.
[18:46] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7308 -- lolz.
[18:46] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:05:01 (#jwrd) jfw: yeah, one has to give up at least a couple netflix episodes a week
[18:47] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7316 -- there's "learned helplessness" on many levels.
[18:47] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:09:22 (#jwrd) jfw: yes, and no; giving up addictions (such as whatever less productive things are preventing people from learning about what's important) is indeed as simple as just not doing it anymore, but the psychological resistance is hard to overcome.
[18:48] jfw: I reckon it has two prongs, the "I can't" and the "I don't need to, I can have someone else do it"
[18:49] caai: True, but this reminds me of a response that Bach once gave when asked if playing keyboard is difficult. He responded "There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself."
[18:49] jfw: haha
[18:50] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7325 -- I'm thinking they pay for hardware and initial set up costs. we also include a subscription service, e.g. a meeting for 1 hour per month. they could use that time to do a transaction, pick our brains about different topics, etc. we can tailor the monthly session to the end client.
[18:50] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:20:02 (#jwrd) caai: in order to determine the price and terms, i think you/we must think through; 1. cost and time involved in the inital set up. 2. cost and time involved in routine maintenance (does this include 1 transaction per month, 0 transactions per month? 3. cost and time involved in ad hoc requests (e.g., cost for additional transactions, when people forget pw/keys which wi
[18:51] dorion: in addition, charge for ad hoc requests such as assistance w/ transactions. schedule the meeting at least 24h in advance.
[18:52] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7354 -- deja vu.
[18:52] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:49:18 (#jwrd) caai: True, but this reminds me of a response that Bach once gave when asked if playing keyboard is difficult. He responded "There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself."
[18:53] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7327 -- exactly.
[18:53] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:21:15 (#jwrd) caai: i would consider that this is for elite clients that are very well off. you are not trying to reach everybody.
[18:53] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7336 -- agreed.
[18:53] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:32:26 (#jwrd) jfw: heck, even the TRNG could be brought in the "doctor's kit", scarce resource that it presently is.
[18:54] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7359 - http://jfxpt.com/2020/draft-gbw-node-frontend-part-6/?b=There&e=practice.#select for one instance but it's surely a common theme.
[18:54] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:52:34 (#jwrd) dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7354 -- deja vu.
[18:56] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7338 -- we can do that as described. in addition. they could encrypt the wallet to our key. they maintain possession of the encrypted file. if they lose possession/access to the "both at once" as you described, they can give us the file to decrypt and recover the funds for them.
[18:56] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:35:33 (#jwrd) jfw: now the idea on data recovery is what, we keep backups but encrypted using a password that they alone have? they lose the data, we recover from their pw; they lose the pw, we re-generate and do a new backup; as long as they don't lose both at once
[18:57] dorion: granted, that assumes the file encrypted to their key is stored by them in a different way than the copy they have encrypted to our key.
[18:58] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7339 -- right, we want to avoid that as much as possible.
[18:58] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:37:11 (#jwrd) jfw: because if we "solve" that last part ie have both the data and encryption password "just in case", it becomes actually our coin, not theirs and thus much higher trust/risk profile
[18:58] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7340 -- good point. most of their accounts are uninsured too.
[18:58] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:40:07 (#jwrd) caai: this is a crucial point that must be thought through. in the end, it will require them trusting you to some degree. to what degree is the question. keep in mind, at the moment, they are completely trusting banks/exchanges that actually own their currencty/coin
[19:01] jfw: dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7367 - good point actually, that would be needed to cover the "loss of password" case since the wallet needs to be stored encrypted to *something* at all times.
[19:01] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:56:32 (#jwrd) dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7338 -- we can do that as described. in addition. they could encrypt the wallet to our key. they maintain possession of the encrypted file. if they lose possession/access to the "both at once" as you described, they can give us the file to decrypt and recover the funds for them.
[19:02] jfw: so something like, each time they modify (use) the wallet, save one encrypted to them and one encrypted to us, and we copy only the one encrypted to them.
[19:02] jfw: how to copy? probably a dedicated (ie airgapped) thumb drive.
[19:03] jfw: also, that one doesn't need to be updated for *each* wallet change, just on generating new keys I guess.
[19:03] caai: an unforseen expense, which should be factored in; as this begins to take off, perhaps you should rent/buy a secure physical location(s) where these thumb drives are stored
[19:03] dorion: was just about to say that.
[19:04] jfw: caai: or guns.
[19:04] caai: hahaha
[19:04] caai: and a security guard
[19:04] dorion: caai, for that, we can vet some options, but better for them to decide and pay for the valut storage.
[19:04] dorion: vault*
[19:04] caai: i agree dorion
[19:05] caai: i like where this discussion is going
[19:05] dorion: we could work on a referral agreement w/ various vaults, but I also suspect our niche already has vaults.
[19:05] dorion: as do I !!
[19:06] jfw: since it's encrypted (to us), the physical security isn't even that crucial, it's more "protect from loss/destruction" than from tampering, so even the bank safety deposit box might suffice.
[19:06] caai: i must attend other tasks. i will rejoin soon. what time are you guys going to the event?
[19:06] dorion: next step is to decide on pricing. structure what we've discussed here as a new section on http://jwrd.net and try out some sales.
[19:07] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7390 -- good poing
[19:07] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 19:06:07 (#jwrd) jfw: since it's encrypted (to us), the physical security isn't even that crucial, it's more "protect from loss/destruction" than from tampering, so even the bank safety deposit box might suffice.
[19:07] dorion: I'm planning to arrive in amador around 5ish.
[19:07] caai: dorion: alright
[19:07] dorion: thanks caai.
[19:07] jfw: 5ish sounds about right.
[19:07] dorion: golden hour.
[19:07] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7397 -- any time!
[19:07] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 19:07:26 (#jwrd) dorion: thanks caai.
[19:08] caai: talk via phone in a few hours
[19:08] jfw: caai: sounds good. dorion: for next steps, perhaps also sketching out the transacting (house call) process in writing
[19:09] dorion: jfw, true.
[19:10] jfw: count on me to notice the required programming work, even if it's people rather than machines being programmed!
Day changed to 2023-05-08
[22:33] dorion: since we're going to be doing these "educational social hours" fairly regularly and educational social hour is a bit of a mouthful and "event" is whitebread and doesn't really cover it, I propose we just call them juntos. straight up, jwrd-junto.
[22:36] dorion: whitebread.
[22:37] dorion: The Junto by JWRD. Eventually, we could start requiring WoT presence for entry.
[22:45] jfw: hmm, the missing aspect from our original junto (not sure about Franklin's) would be how everyone is expected to contribute
[22:49] dorion: sure, and we'll aim for people who will all contribute to the group in their own way. not everything will present, few will present. but the events are just as much, if not more, about connecting cool people.
[22:49] dorion: the educational, informative presentation, is a signal and a filter that attracts the right people and keeps the wrong ones away.
[22:49] dorion: generally speaking.
[22:50] dorion: jfw, just as the original junto was just as much about the dinner after as it was the time in the class/office.
[22:54] jfw: dorion: in those terms, the original had the stronger filter that you needed to have something interesting to say, by the judgement of the group
[22:56] dorion: agreed. so we're loosenin the filter on who can attend, but tightening on who can present.
[22:56] dorion: hardfork 1!!
[22:56] jfw: if the idea is to be a sort of TED talks, then it does seem to fit more the "follower mindset" noted in the linked definition, as regards the passive attendees
[22:56] dorion: or is it soft.
[22:57] dorion: no dude, the idea is to do what we've been doing, but call it the junto.
[22:57] dorion: ultimately, we give it the meaning it carries anyways. but I like this because of our history and because it flows off the tongue.
[22:58] dorion: caai, your thoughts on the heraldry under discussion are welcome.
[23:00] jfw: dorion, I suppose I'm not entirely sure of what it is we've been doing and so I'm pushing to clarify since you're pushing to increase the frequency (which to be clear I'm not necessarily against)
[23:00] jfw: but at the same time pointing out that I find it a weakening of the term, which at least bore pointing out.
[23:02] dorion: I don't argue that it's a weakening of the term and I appreciate you pointing it out. I suppose it might make more of a difference to me if our original junto was still alive. it's dead and slim to no chance it'll be back.
[23:04] dorion: the essence of the original was mutual self-improvement and development. part of proving that was leading meetings. however, life and people being as they are, there was a natural hierarchy and though almost everyone presented, presentations made were not equal.
[23:05] dorion: jfw, you presented the most. by far. as caai humbly put it, "some people just have more interesting and useful things to teach."
[23:10] dorion: the jwrd events we've done post junto (and even dating back to the feb 2020 conference at legitima) have been about getting a group of select, cool people together, have a party. pause in the first half of the party to share some useful information with them to survive and thrive in the Internet age. continue the party. repeat.
Day changed to 2023-05-09
[14:34] jfw is sitting with the above
[14:37] jfw: from my standpoint, it started out with wanting to spread some higher computing culture in my environment, nothing required in return besides fertile soil. then the presentation reciprocity helped balance & make it more interesting & give others the chance or stimulus to practice their own delivery
[14:41] jfw: the feel of it now is quite different though, ie the original is dead, as you said; for one thing I started running low on intro level things of general interest that I could present without more significant effort to prepare; we're now monetizing some of it through the training; then there's the widening of the audience (with lowering of expectations from them) so that it feels more like a
[14:41] jfw: one-way broadcast than an interaction, though of course I still aim to involve them and there's the hangout time after
[14:47] jfw: for the original I was using brief outlines, live demos & whiteboards, i.e. lower preparation effort, flexible & personalized; now it's slideshows and even pushing toward rehearsed delivery
[16:17] dorion: jfw, thanks for sharing. it's definitely a different cost-benefit from "el original junto del edificio tornillo". ((For the log readers, that's the nickname of F&F Tower on Calle 50 where the majority of meetings were held, in the offices of caai's Future Business Learning.))
[16:41] dorion: we'll try the new approach, measure how it goes and decide later what to do with it. like the Duke of Dorset in that other Junta.
[22:44] dorion: jfw, the keyboard teardown will be a good task for blake.
Day changed to 2023-05-10
[15:09] dorion: good morning #jwrd.
[15:09] dorion: sstacks, whaack, how goes the travels ?
[16:19] dorion: I confirmed with javi that our next junto will be on wednesday, june 14th. happy hour starting at 5pm. more details to come/work out, but that decision is made in any case.
[16:19] dorion: at Teka.
Day changed to 2023-05-11
[21:42] jfw: wb caai; here's some discussion you might have missed - http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7406
[21:42] sourcerer: 2023-05-08 22:33:32 (#jwrd) dorion: since we're going to be doing these "educational social hours" fairly regularly and educational social hour is a bit of a mouthful and "event" is whitebread and doesn't really cover it, I propose we just call them juntos. straight up, jwrd-junto.
[21:45] jfw: seeing a bit more of the "event"s that people/socialmediaprofiles go around "heart"ing, I can see myself warming up to using a different term, though as usual it's not the poor word's fault
Day changed to 2023-05-12
[01:15] dorion: right, it's not the word's fault, so let's choose our words carefully and distinguish ourselves.
[16:34] caai: the term 'junto' could be used. as you mentioned dorion, i don't forsee the former 'junto' returning. it had a good run and was fun while it lasted.
[16:34] caai: though, it does seems like a more apt term could be used .....
[16:36] caai: since terms and definitions go hand in hand, how would you define the events in 1 or 2 sentences?
[23:12] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7445 -- what are some that come to your mind ?
[23:12] sourcerer: 2023-05-12 16:34:53 (#jwrd) caai: though, it does seems like a more apt term could be used .....
[23:15] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7446 -- alright, to rephrase/clarify the above, el junto del tornillo was about getting cool people together, share what you've learned and let's see if we can build a history together/further develop the friendship we already have. table stakes were to take turns presenting.
[23:15] sourcerer: 2023-05-12 16:36:15 (#jwrd) caai: since terms and definitions go hand in hand, how would you define the events in 1 or 2 sentences?
[23:28] dorion: the jwrd junto is about connecting with cool people. to start, the table stakes are having the curiosity/interest/patience/coolness to learn about smart tools. there is some selection of the attendees via the direct, word of mouth marketing we're doing ; plus, we can deny people entry at our discretion. the idea is for our people to find us and for us to find our people, they who speak our
[23:28] dorion: language and aren't blind and/or dumb.
[23:30] dorion: I think we should experiment at first with different formats, cast a wide net and filter from there by raising the requirements to control quality.
Day changed to 2023-05-13
[01:48] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/grand-reopening-of-jwrd-the-irc-channel/ - with the corresponding update and some further color added to my front page too.
[12:41] caai: i think almost everyone is blind and dumb in regards to cli that i have met here. if you were to have a terminal and keyboard at the entrance to the event, and require they type at least one command to be admitted, then you will have to turn away 95% of them.
[13:35] dorion: caai, lolz, right, the tweak then is that they're willing to learn.
[13:35] dorion: jfw, nice.
Day changed to 2023-05-14
[06:02] dorion_road: ahoy.
[06:04] dorion: dorion_road will be my nick while I'm on the road and my road key remains the same.
Day changed to 2023-05-15
[01:40] dorion_road: smooth sailing to vt, arrived a coupla hours ago.
[15:11] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7456 -- yes, i think that would be best
[15:11] sourcerer: 2023-05-13 13:35:27 (#jwrd) dorion: caai, lolz, right, the tweak then is that they're willing to learn.
[15:11] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7454 -- nice!
[15:11] sourcerer: 2023-05-13 01:48:11 (#jwrd) jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/grand-reopening-of-jwrd-the-irc-channel/ - with the corresponding update and some further color added to my front page too.
Day changed to 2023-05-16
[15:37] sstacks: hope you guys well
[15:38] sstacks: geting back home on Friday 7pm-ish
[15:56] dorion_road: hey sstacks, how goes in colombia ?
[16:13] sstacks: love it.. its truly amazing!
[16:14] sstacks: Yesterday we visited the Salt Mines
[19:33] jfw_travel: checking in from San Blas, arrived yesterday evening
[19:34] jfw_travel: weather has been overcast but pleasant. excellent snorkeling this am.
[19:41] jfw_travel: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7456 - "willing" sounds a bit like "if it pays well enough and isn't too inconvenient". perhaps fine for starters but what we really want is more "thirsting" i'd think.
[19:41] sourcerer: 2023-05-13 13:35:27 (#jwrd) dorion: caai, lolz, right, the tweak then is that they're willing to learn.
Day changed to 2023-05-18
[14:34] caai: mplayer -loop 2 Soun*Pacific*
[14:34] caai: Sorry, wrong terminal
[14:34] caai: hahaha
[15:41] caai: lately, i have been trying to have less screen time. therefore, i open a terminal and cd into my music library. next, i turn my screen off. i then type in the cli using 'mplayer', 'tab completion' and 'wildcards' to play music without viewing the screen
[15:45] caai: jfw_travel: enjoy San Blas! it is beautiful up there. learn the fine art of growing tired of eating lobster
[16:43] jfw: caai: nice use of wildcards; sounds like a dubious method of reducing screen time though, heh
[16:43] jfw: I guess it's a skill of its own though, CLIing blind
[16:46] jfw: caai: sadly my trip ended up a bit shorter than expected, but yes, the 4 fresh lobster tails for $10 was quite nice.
[16:59] caai: it has helped a little bit in reducing screen time. one must experiment. all experiments don't directly lead to success. the continual process of experimenting, gathering feedback, anaylizing the feedback, refining the experiment does though
[17:01] caai: was that your first time in San Blas?
[21:15] jfw: caai: fair enough.
[21:15] jfw: and yes it was my first time; finally checked off that box, as they say.
Day changed to 2023-05-19
[15:37] caai: nice. it is worth visiting
[17:05] jfw: caai: where do you stay when you go? I saw the island we were at had some basic cabanyas at least, no idea how I'd book one though
[17:41] jfw: caai: in curious coincidences, would you still have sent me a linkedin invite if I hadn't just written this revocation?
[17:55] jfw: I still get the odd notification email from them, it's just not possible to respond to them in any way. pretty good definition of spamming, it seems to me, and quite popular with "service providers" these days.
[17:58] jfw: for all linkedin knows I've been dead for years, and yet they still show me to recruiters. such valuable leads database!
[23:38] jfw: caai: there's a plan afoot to catch a game at Fenicia at 7:30pm today then maybe head to casco.
Day changed to 2023-05-21
[03:43] caai: jfw: i do not recall where i stayed. i have only gone once and that was some years ago
[03:45] caai: i was unaware of what you had written. i sent you an invite because you appeared in a feed during my monthly login
[03:47] caai: i just now saw the message about Fencia last night. thanks for the invite.
Day changed to 2023-05-23
[14:50] jfw: ahoy sstacks, how'd the travels wind up?
[17:16] jfw: whaack: one trick I came across in sqlite tuning was the ANALYZE command, which helps the query optimizer avoid horribly wrong choices in some cases (such as the order in which to apply filters), dunno if that'd be helpful to your block explorer. unfortunately it's slow but only needs to be done once (or whenever the "shape" of the
[17:16] jfw: data changes significantly)
[17:28] jfw: without it I hit this perverse situation where dropping an index actually *increased* a query's performance significantly (as in the difference between immediate response and having to wait around), because it forced it to use another index which provided the better initial filter.
[20:12] whaack2: hey are we on for today?
[20:46] jfw: whaack: can't speak for anyone else but I'm on!
[22:08] sstacks: Hey guys, so sorry for delay
Day changed to 2023-05-24
[01:30] jfw: A neat thing I turned up, for the musicians among us: https://abcnotation.com/
[01:36] jfw: with this format & its supporting software I've been able to input passages in plain ASCII in a nicely concise form - including with polyphony, though I had to dig a bit deeper for that - then convert this source to graphical (staff) notation (using abcm2ps) as well as MIDI file (abc2mid), and thence to audible sound (that's a more involved process but I've been using fluidsynth)
[01:37] jfw: this is all on gentoo
[01:46] jfw: whaack: from what I gathered of your Apollo adventures, most of the effort there was on waveform synthesis, is that right? how did that go, did you get realistic or at least interesting sounding instrument voices? anything stand out as worth reading from the prior art?
[01:49] jfw: dorion_road: comment in your mod queue, again without the expected label to that effect in the page as shown to me; not urgent so possibly worth usign to take a look into why it's doing that
[02:00] jfw: looks like fixpoint has the same problem, just nobody ever noticed? here's where it's supposed to come from but possibly all that schmancy class-based stuff isn't actually being used
[02:51] jfw: sure enough, default/kubrick theme calls fancy functions while classic theme does its own simple for-loop
[02:52] jfw: the "by 'themes' what we actually meant was 'totally different frontend rendering engines'" thing is quite the ugly rake they put in for me to step on.
[02:55] jfw: iirc I chose mine based on liking the variable width and that the html/css looked more manageable as a starting point; didn't realize all sorts of functionality was going to be broken/different.
[03:28] dorion_road: welcome barbarian.
[14:01] sstacks: Hey frenes. I reiterate my apologies for delay yesterday, as thank you all for all the value provided. Ill check out the recording during the day.
[14:03] sstacks: jfw: yesterday when we were trying the optical transmitter I had to open a different shell to verify input, why is this? Also, what does the hexdump command means?
[16:27] jfw: sstacks: no harm done this time around, we turned it into a nice social hour anyway.
[16:31] jfw: sstacks: hex is short for hexadecimal which means a base-16 representation of numbers. it uses the usual 10 digits 0-9, then adds on the letters A-F to represent the values ten through fifteen.
[16:32] jfw: it's commonly used for human display of computer numbers because each hex digit corresponds exactly to a group of four bits (2^4 = 16), thus two digits is exactly a byte and so on.
[16:33] jfw: so a hex dump is a printable representation of arbitrary binary data which may include letters, numbers, whitespace, control codes, and system-dependent symbols or otherwise unprintable characters.
[16:36] jfw: the conventional layout (per hexdump -C) is a byte counter/address in the left column, hex values in the center column(s), and in the right column, a direct printout of whichever characters are safely printable with dots (.) for the rest, so you can pick out whatever readable snippets might be in it.
[16:38] jfw: sstacks: you needed two shells because there's a sending side and a receiving side, so you needed the hexdump running to capture the receiving side at the same time as you're running whatever program to do the sending. otherwise you're shouting in a forest with nobody around to listen, so to speak.
[16:40] jfw: in the simplified one-machine setup from yesterday, the two shells took the place of two separate machines.
[17:02] sstacks: jfw: ok, so using two shells was the maneuver to simulate com between two machines. And, would it be safe to say that the hexdump is a command that facilitates a human-readable language of computer data?
[17:13] jfw: sstacks: I wouldn't go so far as to say "language", but yes, a legible view of data in its lowest level, raw form (byte sequence)
[17:21] sstacks: jfw: Noted, thanks!
[17:37] jfw: sstacks: you're welcome!
Day changed to 2023-05-25
[03:09] jfw: another earthquake in panama city.
[13:29] sstacks: jfw: yes, felt it too, i thought it was my whisky's effect, until it was evident it wasent. Its the second most prolonged one ive felt.
[16:38] jfw: sstacks: probably the most prolonged for me. nothing fell but the blinds and a hanging light were swaying quite a bit
Day changed to 2023-05-29
[21:28] sstacks: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/4ggayda67z -- whaack, sstacks
[22:21] sstacks: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/bpwghegwqn --whaack, sstacks. Lesson 10 hw..
[22:21] sstacks: Previous was lesson 9+
[23:48] jfw: yay! will give it a look, sstacks.
Day changed to 2023-05-30
[12:32] sstacks: jfw: Morning. Yes, I must say, wouldnt been possible without whaack. I forgot exporting input history for further analysis.
[20:00] jfw: sstacks: good for whaack then, although asking the teacher is an option too :)
[20:00] jfw: sstacks: the transactions look good to me, but there was the question of what happens when you try to broadcast (push) them?
[20:01] sstacks: jfw: It is. Thing is we did the hw together as he dosent has the hardware
[20:01] sstacks: jfw: yes, i took a picture of the output
[20:01] jfw: can you describe or summarize it perhaps?
[20:02] jfw: the CLI is about verbal over visual thinking, after all
[20:04] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7535 - that's fine; I was just addressing the "wouldn't have been possible without".
[20:04] sourcerer: 2023-05-30 20:01:05 (#jwrd) sstacks: jfw: It is. Thing is we did the hw together as he dosent has the hardware
[20:05] jfw: new gpg key looks good too, as far as I can tell from afar!
[20:06] sstacks: jfw: ohh right! Agreed. Thanks for mentioning it.
[20:07] jfw: no prob.
[20:08] sstacks: jfw: basically tx got rejected. Throws a JSONRPCError
[20:08] jfw: any specifics on the error (a message or code perhaps)?
[20:09] sstacks: jfw: gbw-node: JSONRPCError (-25, u'tx rejected, see log for details')
[20:10] sstacks: This is the output.. it was shown 3 times (guessing because we tried to push 3 txs
[20:10] jfw: sounds right
[20:11] jfw: so we'd have to check debug.log (from the exact right time) to find the specific reason - not the most helpful software huh.
[20:11] sstacks: jfw: btw, it was exciting see the optical diodes do their thing
[20:12] jfw: nice!
[20:13] sstacks: jfw: yes, maybe we should check the log just to please curiosity
[20:13] jfw: sure why not, practice some 'less' skills.
[20:14] jfw: I'll be afk for now though.
[20:37] sstacks: jfw: trying to locate the debug.log. Havent been successful
[22:43] dorion_road: sstacks, ~/.bitcoin/debug.log
[22:56] sstacks: dorion_road, thanks bro
[23:03] jfw: I believe it turned out they did find the log file, just had trouble finding the relevant lines in it amid the steady torrent of messages from the sync / normal operations.
[23:04] sstacks: jfw: neither
[23:05] jfw: sstacks: oh ok, then just finding the log sounds like a good next step.
[23:06] jfw: whaack had mentioned that trouble but perhaps it was more theoretical.
[23:06] sstacks: jfw: yes, i was actually hoping that i could find that log on the gbw-node directory.. but I guesss that bitcoind makes more sense
[23:08] jfw: right, because it's bitcoind that validates transactions & blocks.
[23:09] sstacks: jfw: precisely
[23:11] jfw: sstacks, whaack: once the recording finishes processing/uploading, you should be able to use the end of it for guidance on the homework. we didn't get to the material on "tar" but there's no assignment for that as yet.
[23:11] sstacks: jfw: noted, thanks for your neat job
[23:29] jfw: just corrected the formatting & content flaws I'd noted in the outline so give that a refresh too.
[23:30] jfw: (for one, since "swapon -s" isn't supported on busybox, "cat /proc/swaps" works to list currently active swap device mappings in Gales. I basically only noticed this now because I don't use swap anywhere these days.)
Day changed to 2023-05-31
[01:52] jfw: and for any waiting with bated breath - video's up.
[02:07] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7568 - I had to go back in the recordings to see what's up with that, and found that I did indeed notice it / hit the problem the last time through this material, just didn't take note enough to do something about it.
[02:07] sourcerer: 2023-05-30 23:30:43 (#jwrd) jfw: (for one, since "swapon -s" isn't supported on busybox, "cat /proc/swaps" works to list currently active swap device mappings in Gales. I basically only noticed this now because I don't use swap anywhere these days.)
[18:26] jfw: I'm reading that fresh milled flour, as I kind of expected from experience with coffee, tastes & smells noticeably better than the mass-production supermarket shelf fodder, and the unground wheat berries can keep longer. It's said to be more difficult to bake with though, or at least different, so perhaps better used as part of a blend. Home kitchen scale milling machines do exist; how much to
[18:26] jfw: shell out is a question, but it might even be doable with a humble blender such as I already have. So, all that remains is to find where to order the grains and start experimenting!
[18:35] jfw: There doesn't seem to be any wheat production in Panama, at least I didn't find any and gossip says that the plant needs at least some degree of colder winter. There is local milling but it sprays out only the cheap white junk with all the additives; better imported flours are available in some stores but rather outrageously priced. Hence the desire to in-source a bit more of the supply chain.
[18:48] jfw: those prices may be a more global effect though, what with the ukraine situation and general inflation.
[18:53] sstacks: jfw: Wife and I avoid most of the refined flour as we can. I love it, but is so toxic and bad for organism. Its even addictive, as a drug. As we try to find a better option, we buy "wholemeal" flour on supermarket and "almond" flour sold in Price Smart. Im pretty sure these are not best options we could get. If you have a recommendation, we would be thankful.
[19:05] jfw: sstacks: where or what mark do you get for "wholemeal"? just curious as I don't recall seeing that specifically
[19:08] jfw: there is this trend of thinking that grains as a whole are unhealthy (or even plant foods altogether!); I don't really subscribe, though that could just be because I love good bread.
[19:10] sstacks: jfw: Natuforte is the brand
[19:11] jfw: sstacks: ah, the 'harina integral' in small greenish plastic bags?
[19:12] sstacks: jfw: That same one
[19:13] jfw: I tried that years ago and found the texture suspicious, like it's basically white flour with just a bit of bran & germ mixed back in; and significant impurities, little black flakes of god knows what that I was picking out of the dough, ugh.
[19:13] sstacks: jfw: I feel you. What you currently use?
[19:15] jfw: currently I use King Arthur brand which is unbleached & free of additives as far as I know and certainly comes out tasty. Found the Bread & Whole Wheat varieties at Super Kosher around $1.60/lb, which I used to get in the States for $1/lb. Not too bad though.
[19:16] jfw: sstacks: what do you & wife like to bake?
[19:19] jfw: checking one uncited chart, the global prices should be back down now; from $5/bushel in 2019 it spiked to $12 in 2022 and now back down just over $6.
[19:21] sstacks: jfw: You find King Arthur at Super Kosher as well? As im a bread lover (bad bread) my wife ought to learn how to bake bread. Avoiding everything that is refined.
[19:26] jfw: correct, at super kosher. they just didn't have the All-Purpose variety which is better for sweets (I do cookies & pancakes on occasion).
[19:27] jfw: but I've been doing my own sourdough pretty consistently since 2018 or so.
[19:28] jfw: you guys want to come over some time & learn? just pick up the flour for me since I'm running low and it'll be a deal
[19:45] jfw: my process takes about an hour of human time per loaf counting the prep & cleanup: mix, rest & knead in the evening, proof overnight, shape loaf & bake the next day.
[15:06] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7214 - greetings sstacks; if I may ask, what happened to Monday?
[15:06] sourcerer: 2023-04-29 04:03:17 (#jwrd) sstacks: whaack: my brother.. on monday most likely. Ill try on Sunday.. but weekends are very difficult for me
[15:09] sstacks: Hey Jacob, whaack and I are on zoom doing the hw
[15:13] sstacks: So, atm we are stuck
[15:15] sstacks: We are trying to run gbw-init.
[15:15] sstacks: We set up the GBW_RECEPIENT succesfully after creating a gpg key
[15:16] sstacks: We input GBW_TEMPDIR=/tmp
[15:16] sstacks: And tried running gbw-init again
[15:17] sstacks: We tried also gbw-init mywallet as adding an argument
[15:17] sstacks: using gbw-init we get an output: missing filename for encrypted archive.
[15:18] sstacks: by using gbw-init mywallet we get this output: mktemp: permission denied
[15:20] sstacks: We didint yesterday as i was out of reach area. So we decided to meet this morning
[15:21] sstacks: we are stuck on the error of permission denied after inputing gbw-init mywallet
[15:23] jfw: sstacks: the variables are GBW_RECIPIENT and GBW_TMPDIR, are they spelled correctly?
[15:24] sstacks: Yikes, i think that it
[15:24] sstacks: Ill be on it now
[15:25] sstacks: that made it
[15:25] jfw: nice!
[15:25] sstacks: thanks!
[15:25] jfw: np
[15:30] jfw: guess I better add validation of those parameters, probably in gbw-init
[15:37] sstacks: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/vdsrndvgah
[15:39] sstacks: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/9ymvmu6t3c
[15:40] sstacks: First url: public key | Second url: private key. This is for homework from session 8
[15:42] jfw: sstacks: looks good
[15:46] sstacks: So i just was Whaack's hands. Im learning from him too
[15:50] sstacks: whaack: http://bitcoindexplorer.com/ not loading an address with BIG tx count
[15:51] sstacks: whaack: 1Kr6QSydW9bFQG1mXiPNNu6WpJGmUa9i1g .. this is the one we used
[15:54] sstacks: whaack: on a second try on the mirror page, did work!
[16:41] sstacks: Ok, we stuck again. We are trying to sign a transaction to 1Ga1esBitcoinWa11etXXXXXXXXXWS7nQa
[16:41] sstacks: As we made an "output" filename with these variables:
[16:41] sstacks: Address: "address"
[16:42] sstacks: Value: 837.421355
[16:42] sstacks: TXID : "txid"
[16:42] sstacks: Index : 3
[16:43] sstacks: So this are the variables we put on the "outputs" file. And now we trying to run:
[16:43] sstacks: gbw-signer send "amount" "address"
[16:43] sstacks: We tried as well: gbw-signer send "address" "amount"
[16:44] sstacks: We gettint this error: not a number: ""
[16:54] jfw: for starters, it's address followed by amount (value) ie the second form you gave there
[16:55] jfw: not sure if you actually used quotes in the outputs file but don't
[16:57] jfw: maybe check also that the contents of the fee and change files look sensible
[16:58] jfw: the error is certainly correct that the empty string is not a number, but hard to tell so far what is the context.
[17:28] sstacks: jfw: Thanks for reply. We are not using the quotes.
[17:28] sstacks: We should set the fee text-file in a certain way?
[17:32] jfw: sstacks: looking back at it, gbw-init wasn't even covered in session 8 so it looks like the idea was to use an existing wallet tree set up during the in-class practice
[17:35] jfw: sstacks: but you were out for session 8, so we got you caught up on the installation during session 9 but looks like we didn't do the whole wallet tree setup practice.
[17:36] jfw: so: yes, the fee file needs to contain the transaction fee to pay; and the change file needs to contain the change address.
[17:36] jfw: gbw-init prompts for them to speed up the setup, but doesn't really validate.
[17:37] sstacks: Ok so we are good with the change txtfile
[17:38] sstacks: We added the fee amount on the fee txt-file: 0.00015
[17:38] sstacks: This is the error now after trying to sign a tx: "missing fields in output: "Address : 1ABxxxx" (the address we made)
[17:40] jfw: ha, I think I see the misunderstanding
[17:41] jfw: "The outputs table is awk-style, that is, with fields separated by one or more space or tab characters and records separated by linefeeds."
[17:41] sstacks: oh ok, so there must be a line between each field
[17:41] jfw: then where it says, "Address : address to which the output was sent, in the usual Base58" etc., this is documenting what those fields are, not showing the literal format
[17:42] jfw: each *output* is on its own line, and each line contains all four of those fields separated by spaces/tabs.
[17:42] jfw: there are no headers ("Address" etc.)
[17:43] sstacks: so plain values instead with no headers
[17:43] jfw: naked values.
[17:43] sstacks: gotcha
[17:49] sstacks: We getting this output now: ERROR: invalid base58 digit:Â #\1
[17:50] sstacks: We now setting the output file as in one single lines, values separated by a single space.
[17:52] jfw: sstacks, the unicode that's getting mixed in there makes it a bit hard to read but let's see
[17:53] jfw: 1 is a valid base58 digit so something doesn't add up
[17:54] jfw: you're sure it's a 1 not an l (letter el) ?
[17:58] sstacks: Yopu were right
[17:58] sstacks: I typed an L instead of a 1
[17:58] jfw: heh, and that'd be why the L isn't allowed.
[17:59] jfw: well, the lowercase one. the uppercase is!
[18:02] sstacks: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/3a6a3wm5ha
[18:03] sstacks: txids from the transactions txtfile .. from the session 8 hw.
[18:03] sstacks: sorry, not txids
[18:06] sstacks: we made it thru that one. So, both of the stuck cases were caused by bad typo
[18:07] sstacks: Is theres a way i could get this sessions input and output history?
[18:16] jfw: sstacks: the shell session? you can't get output history after the fact, would need to be using something like tmux/screen or script
[18:17] jfw: for input history at least at the shell level you can do "history 1" and redirect it to a file
[18:18] sstacks: like "history 1 > input.history"?
[18:22] jfw: yup
[18:23] jfw: 1 is the starting line number, else it just does the last 10 or so
Day changed to 2023-05-05
[15:24] caai: jwrd: would you like to meet to review the steps to start offering the 'Concierge Service'? the world needs it. we could do a 1-hour session to nail down the offering and steps to market it. i am available for a coffee/limonade this weekend. quedo pendiente a sus comentarios
[18:44] jfw: caai: I'm down for that, or we could hold the discussion here to maximize the future value of the words, then still go for un cafe o limonada if so inclined
[18:48] jfw: one step taken on the tech side is being ready to furnish the list of available outputs for any given address, though it's not yet fully nailed down.
[18:53] jfw: caai: the main competing demands are the ongoing restructure & delivery of training, and that we need to get the email and LAMP stack project done already, and those generally take priority because there's actual money on them already rather than as-yet unproven need.
[18:54] jfw: caai: I'm inclined to agree with you about the world needing it; the less certain part is whether the world will perceive it and be willing to pay enough
[18:56] jfw: though on the bright side, it doesn't seem to require that much more R&D investment beyond what's already cooked or cooking.
Day changed to 2023-05-06
[17:56] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7301-- i have had various conversations with people that know of the jwrd operation training. they freely share their opinions with me. the barrier to entry is time/inertia rather than finances. let us be optimistic and say it is time.
[17:56] sourcerer: 2023-05-05 18:54:56 (#jwrd) jfw: caai: I'm inclined to agree with you about the world needing it; the less certain part is whether the world will perceive it and be willing to pay enough
[18:01] caai: nevertheless, they are aware of the continually increasing encroachment of governments and banks.
[18:03] jfw: caai: right, it's not that they don't *have* the money. you think they perceive the risks of the $50 gizmo "solution" such that we're more than just an overpriced version of same?
[18:04] caai: we in this forum are all aware that in order to gain freedom and autonomy one must become computer literate. but, let's be honest, it is not easy. it requires a significant sacrifice.
[18:05] jfw: yeah, one has to give up at least a couple netflix episodes a week
[18:05] jfw: that's like 10 youtubes or 100 tiktoks!
[18:05] caai: i am sure they would be willing to pay for a jwrd to set up and maintain a node in thier abode.
[18:05] caai: hahaha
[18:06] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7309 -- do you really think it is that simple?
[18:06] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:05:28 (#jwrd) jfw: that's like 10 youtubes or 100 tiktoks!
[18:07] dorion: oh, hai caai !
[18:08] caai: in short, the product, which is the most difficult part, already exists
[18:09] jfw: yes, and no; giving up addictions (such as whatever less productive things are preventing people from learning about what's important) is indeed as simple as just not doing it anymore, but the psychological resistance is hard to overcome.
[18:09] caai: it is just a matter of setting a price and thinking through the details of the maintenance
[18:10] jfw: caai: but I see your point and not arguing that we shouldn't have an entry with lower time/mental costs.
[18:12] caai: i agree. if computer literacy is necessary in the 21st century, no matter how difficult it might be, just start learning even if it is a little everyday/week
[18:12] caai: that is my way of thinking, and i know a lot more than i did when i first met you
[18:15] jfw: "psychological resistance is hard to overcome" - besides that (or because of it), it tends to require a change of environment (distancing from the things or people that feed the bad habits) and some real pressure (internal or external)
[18:16] jfw: caai: but go on, if you had more thoughts on the next steps
[18:17] jfw: caai: btw, we'll likely be at the panamigos sunset thing today if you'd like to join
[18:19] jfw: 4pm, La Fisheria, Isla Flamenco, Amador, "dressy casual"
[18:20] caai: in order to determine the price and terms, i think you/we must think through; 1. cost and time involved in the inital set up. 2. cost and time involved in routine maintenance (does this include 1 transaction per month, 0 transactions per month? 3. cost and time involved in ad hoc requests (e.g., cost for additional transactions, when people forget pw/keys which will happen, when people delete
[18:20] caai: their wallets which will happen) 4. cost and time involved when equipment eventually fails
[18:21] caai: i would consider that this is for elite clients that are very well off. you are not trying to reach everybody.
[18:21] jfw: indeed
[18:22] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7323 -- cool, thanks. i will consider going
[18:22] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:17:34 (#jwrd) jfw: caai: btw, we'll likely be at the panamigos sunset thing today if you'd like to join
[18:24] jfw: your list 1-4 sounds pretty complete to me
[18:28] jfw: I guess the minimal kit would be the one offline machine with trng; then we can bring bridging machinery (fiber, wifi machine or edgerouter etc) when visiting
[18:28] caai: we need to expand the network. if people are not willing to learn, we have to expand it via another means without compromising the protocol, yet also making it worth your time.
[18:30] jfw: extracting profits from laziness, it sounds effective and quite ethically palatable too (recognizing where people are while providing correct incentives)
[18:31] caai: i agree. you are providing a VERY valuable service. and yes, it is where people are at currently.
[18:32] jfw: heck, even the TRNG could be brought in the "doctor's kit", scarce resource that it presently is.
[18:34] caai: yes, it could be brought in as well
[18:35] jfw: now the idea on data recovery is what, we keep backups but encrypted using a password that they alone have? they lose the data, we recover from their pw; they lose the pw, we re-generate and do a new backup; as long as they don't lose both at once
[18:37] jfw: because if we "solve" that last part ie have both the data and encryption password "just in case", it becomes actually our coin, not theirs and thus much higher trust/risk profile
[18:40] caai: this is a crucial point that must be thought through. in the end, it will require them trusting you to some degree. to what degree is the question. keep in mind, at the moment, they are completely trusting banks/exchanges that actually own their currencty/coin
[18:41] caai: currency/coin*
[18:42] jfw: I suppose they could give a password copy to a trusted family member or associate
[18:42] caai: that is a viable option
[18:45] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7302 -- right, it's more business development and sales than softwware or hardware development.
[18:45] sourcerer: 2023-05-05 18:56:46 (#jwrd) jfw: though on the bright side, it doesn't seem to require that much more R&D investment beyond what's already cooked or cooking.
[18:45] jfw: (I'd say "or a trusted lawyer" but better not presume the existence of a square circle in a business discussion!)
[18:46] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7307 -- word.
[18:46] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:04:04 (#jwrd) caai: we in this forum are all aware that in order to gain freedom and autonomy one must become computer literate. but, let's be honest, it is not easy. it requires a significant sacrifice.
[18:46] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7308 -- lolz.
[18:46] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:05:01 (#jwrd) jfw: yeah, one has to give up at least a couple netflix episodes a week
[18:47] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7316 -- there's "learned helplessness" on many levels.
[18:47] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:09:22 (#jwrd) jfw: yes, and no; giving up addictions (such as whatever less productive things are preventing people from learning about what's important) is indeed as simple as just not doing it anymore, but the psychological resistance is hard to overcome.
[18:48] jfw: I reckon it has two prongs, the "I can't" and the "I don't need to, I can have someone else do it"
[18:49] caai: True, but this reminds me of a response that Bach once gave when asked if playing keyboard is difficult. He responded "There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself."
[18:49] jfw: haha
[18:50] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7325 -- I'm thinking they pay for hardware and initial set up costs. we also include a subscription service, e.g. a meeting for 1 hour per month. they could use that time to do a transaction, pick our brains about different topics, etc. we can tailor the monthly session to the end client.
[18:50] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:20:02 (#jwrd) caai: in order to determine the price and terms, i think you/we must think through; 1. cost and time involved in the inital set up. 2. cost and time involved in routine maintenance (does this include 1 transaction per month, 0 transactions per month? 3. cost and time involved in ad hoc requests (e.g., cost for additional transactions, when people forget pw/keys which wi
[18:51] dorion: in addition, charge for ad hoc requests such as assistance w/ transactions. schedule the meeting at least 24h in advance.
[18:52] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7354 -- deja vu.
[18:52] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:49:18 (#jwrd) caai: True, but this reminds me of a response that Bach once gave when asked if playing keyboard is difficult. He responded "There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself."
[18:53] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7327 -- exactly.
[18:53] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:21:15 (#jwrd) caai: i would consider that this is for elite clients that are very well off. you are not trying to reach everybody.
[18:53] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7336 -- agreed.
[18:53] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:32:26 (#jwrd) jfw: heck, even the TRNG could be brought in the "doctor's kit", scarce resource that it presently is.
[18:54] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7359 - http://jfxpt.com/2020/draft-gbw-node-frontend-part-6/?b=There&e=practice.#select for one instance but it's surely a common theme.
[18:54] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:52:34 (#jwrd) dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7354 -- deja vu.
[18:56] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7338 -- we can do that as described. in addition. they could encrypt the wallet to our key. they maintain possession of the encrypted file. if they lose possession/access to the "both at once" as you described, they can give us the file to decrypt and recover the funds for them.
[18:56] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:35:33 (#jwrd) jfw: now the idea on data recovery is what, we keep backups but encrypted using a password that they alone have? they lose the data, we recover from their pw; they lose the pw, we re-generate and do a new backup; as long as they don't lose both at once
[18:57] dorion: granted, that assumes the file encrypted to their key is stored by them in a different way than the copy they have encrypted to our key.
[18:58] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7339 -- right, we want to avoid that as much as possible.
[18:58] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:37:11 (#jwrd) jfw: because if we "solve" that last part ie have both the data and encryption password "just in case", it becomes actually our coin, not theirs and thus much higher trust/risk profile
[18:58] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7340 -- good point. most of their accounts are uninsured too.
[18:58] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:40:07 (#jwrd) caai: this is a crucial point that must be thought through. in the end, it will require them trusting you to some degree. to what degree is the question. keep in mind, at the moment, they are completely trusting banks/exchanges that actually own their currencty/coin
[19:01] jfw: dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7367 - good point actually, that would be needed to cover the "loss of password" case since the wallet needs to be stored encrypted to *something* at all times.
[19:01] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 18:56:32 (#jwrd) dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7338 -- we can do that as described. in addition. they could encrypt the wallet to our key. they maintain possession of the encrypted file. if they lose possession/access to the "both at once" as you described, they can give us the file to decrypt and recover the funds for them.
[19:02] jfw: so something like, each time they modify (use) the wallet, save one encrypted to them and one encrypted to us, and we copy only the one encrypted to them.
[19:02] jfw: how to copy? probably a dedicated (ie airgapped) thumb drive.
[19:03] jfw: also, that one doesn't need to be updated for *each* wallet change, just on generating new keys I guess.
[19:03] caai: an unforseen expense, which should be factored in; as this begins to take off, perhaps you should rent/buy a secure physical location(s) where these thumb drives are stored
[19:03] dorion: was just about to say that.
[19:04] jfw: caai: or guns.
[19:04] caai: hahaha
[19:04] caai: and a security guard
[19:04] dorion: caai, for that, we can vet some options, but better for them to decide and pay for the valut storage.
[19:04] dorion: vault*
[19:04] caai: i agree dorion
[19:05] caai: i like where this discussion is going
[19:05] dorion: we could work on a referral agreement w/ various vaults, but I also suspect our niche already has vaults.
[19:05] dorion: as do I !!
[19:06] jfw: since it's encrypted (to us), the physical security isn't even that crucial, it's more "protect from loss/destruction" than from tampering, so even the bank safety deposit box might suffice.
[19:06] caai: i must attend other tasks. i will rejoin soon. what time are you guys going to the event?
[19:06] dorion: next step is to decide on pricing. structure what we've discussed here as a new section on http://jwrd.net and try out some sales.
[19:07] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7390 -- good poing
[19:07] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 19:06:07 (#jwrd) jfw: since it's encrypted (to us), the physical security isn't even that crucial, it's more "protect from loss/destruction" than from tampering, so even the bank safety deposit box might suffice.
[19:07] dorion: I'm planning to arrive in amador around 5ish.
[19:07] caai: dorion: alright
[19:07] dorion: thanks caai.
[19:07] jfw: 5ish sounds about right.
[19:07] dorion: golden hour.
[19:07] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7397 -- any time!
[19:07] sourcerer: 2023-05-06 19:07:26 (#jwrd) dorion: thanks caai.
[19:08] caai: talk via phone in a few hours
[19:08] jfw: caai: sounds good. dorion: for next steps, perhaps also sketching out the transacting (house call) process in writing
[19:09] dorion: jfw, true.
[19:10] jfw: count on me to notice the required programming work, even if it's people rather than machines being programmed!
Day changed to 2023-05-08
[22:33] dorion: since we're going to be doing these "educational social hours" fairly regularly and educational social hour is a bit of a mouthful and "event" is whitebread and doesn't really cover it, I propose we just call them juntos. straight up, jwrd-junto.
[22:36] dorion: whitebread.
[22:37] dorion: The Junto by JWRD. Eventually, we could start requiring WoT presence for entry.
[22:45] jfw: hmm, the missing aspect from our original junto (not sure about Franklin's) would be how everyone is expected to contribute
[22:49] dorion: sure, and we'll aim for people who will all contribute to the group in their own way. not everything will present, few will present. but the events are just as much, if not more, about connecting cool people.
[22:49] dorion: the educational, informative presentation, is a signal and a filter that attracts the right people and keeps the wrong ones away.
[22:49] dorion: generally speaking.
[22:50] dorion: jfw, just as the original junto was just as much about the dinner after as it was the time in the class/office.
[22:54] jfw: dorion: in those terms, the original had the stronger filter that you needed to have something interesting to say, by the judgement of the group
[22:56] dorion: agreed. so we're loosenin the filter on who can attend, but tightening on who can present.
[22:56] dorion: hardfork 1!!
[22:56] jfw: if the idea is to be a sort of TED talks, then it does seem to fit more the "follower mindset" noted in the linked definition, as regards the passive attendees
[22:56] dorion: or is it soft.
[22:57] dorion: no dude, the idea is to do what we've been doing, but call it the junto.
[22:57] dorion: ultimately, we give it the meaning it carries anyways. but I like this because of our history and because it flows off the tongue.
[22:58] dorion: caai, your thoughts on the heraldry under discussion are welcome.
[23:00] jfw: dorion, I suppose I'm not entirely sure of what it is we've been doing and so I'm pushing to clarify since you're pushing to increase the frequency (which to be clear I'm not necessarily against)
[23:00] jfw: but at the same time pointing out that I find it a weakening of the term, which at least bore pointing out.
[23:02] dorion: I don't argue that it's a weakening of the term and I appreciate you pointing it out. I suppose it might make more of a difference to me if our original junto was still alive. it's dead and slim to no chance it'll be back.
[23:04] dorion: the essence of the original was mutual self-improvement and development. part of proving that was leading meetings. however, life and people being as they are, there was a natural hierarchy and though almost everyone presented, presentations made were not equal.
[23:05] dorion: jfw, you presented the most. by far. as caai humbly put it, "some people just have more interesting and useful things to teach."
[23:10] dorion: the jwrd events we've done post junto (and even dating back to the feb 2020 conference at legitima) have been about getting a group of select, cool people together, have a party. pause in the first half of the party to share some useful information with them to survive and thrive in the Internet age. continue the party. repeat.
Day changed to 2023-05-09
[14:34] jfw is sitting with the above
[14:37] jfw: from my standpoint, it started out with wanting to spread some higher computing culture in my environment, nothing required in return besides fertile soil. then the presentation reciprocity helped balance & make it more interesting & give others the chance or stimulus to practice their own delivery
[14:41] jfw: the feel of it now is quite different though, ie the original is dead, as you said; for one thing I started running low on intro level things of general interest that I could present without more significant effort to prepare; we're now monetizing some of it through the training; then there's the widening of the audience (with lowering of expectations from them) so that it feels more like a
[14:41] jfw: one-way broadcast than an interaction, though of course I still aim to involve them and there's the hangout time after
[14:47] jfw: for the original I was using brief outlines, live demos & whiteboards, i.e. lower preparation effort, flexible & personalized; now it's slideshows and even pushing toward rehearsed delivery
[16:17] dorion: jfw, thanks for sharing. it's definitely a different cost-benefit from "el original junto del edificio tornillo". ((For the log readers, that's the nickname of F&F Tower on Calle 50 where the majority of meetings were held, in the offices of caai's Future Business Learning.))
[16:41] dorion: we'll try the new approach, measure how it goes and decide later what to do with it. like the Duke of Dorset in that other Junta.
[22:44] dorion: jfw, the keyboard teardown will be a good task for blake.
Day changed to 2023-05-10
[15:09] dorion: good morning #jwrd.
[15:09] dorion: sstacks, whaack, how goes the travels ?
[16:19] dorion: I confirmed with javi that our next junto will be on wednesday, june 14th. happy hour starting at 5pm. more details to come/work out, but that decision is made in any case.
[16:19] dorion: at Teka.
Day changed to 2023-05-11
[21:42] jfw: wb caai; here's some discussion you might have missed - http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7406
[21:42] sourcerer: 2023-05-08 22:33:32 (#jwrd) dorion: since we're going to be doing these "educational social hours" fairly regularly and educational social hour is a bit of a mouthful and "event" is whitebread and doesn't really cover it, I propose we just call them juntos. straight up, jwrd-junto.
[21:45] jfw: seeing a bit more of the "event"s that people/socialmediaprofiles go around "heart"ing, I can see myself warming up to using a different term, though as usual it's not the poor word's fault
Day changed to 2023-05-12
[01:15] dorion: right, it's not the word's fault, so let's choose our words carefully and distinguish ourselves.
[16:34] caai: the term 'junto' could be used. as you mentioned dorion, i don't forsee the former 'junto' returning. it had a good run and was fun while it lasted.
[16:34] caai: though, it does seems like a more apt term could be used .....
[16:36] caai: since terms and definitions go hand in hand, how would you define the events in 1 or 2 sentences?
[23:12] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7445 -- what are some that come to your mind ?
[23:12] sourcerer: 2023-05-12 16:34:53 (#jwrd) caai: though, it does seems like a more apt term could be used .....
[23:15] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7446 -- alright, to rephrase/clarify the above, el junto del tornillo was about getting cool people together, share what you've learned and let's see if we can build a history together/further develop the friendship we already have. table stakes were to take turns presenting.
[23:15] sourcerer: 2023-05-12 16:36:15 (#jwrd) caai: since terms and definitions go hand in hand, how would you define the events in 1 or 2 sentences?
[23:28] dorion: the jwrd junto is about connecting with cool people. to start, the table stakes are having the curiosity/interest/patience/coolness to learn about smart tools. there is some selection of the attendees via the direct, word of mouth marketing we're doing ; plus, we can deny people entry at our discretion. the idea is for our people to find us and for us to find our people, they who speak our
[23:28] dorion: language and aren't blind and/or dumb.
[23:30] dorion: I think we should experiment at first with different formats, cast a wide net and filter from there by raising the requirements to control quality.
Day changed to 2023-05-13
[01:48] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/grand-reopening-of-jwrd-the-irc-channel/ - with the corresponding update and some further color added to my front page too.
[12:41] caai: i think almost everyone is blind and dumb in regards to cli that i have met here. if you were to have a terminal and keyboard at the entrance to the event, and require they type at least one command to be admitted, then you will have to turn away 95% of them.
[13:35] dorion: caai, lolz, right, the tweak then is that they're willing to learn.
[13:35] dorion: jfw, nice.
Day changed to 2023-05-14
[06:02] dorion_road: ahoy.
[06:04] dorion: dorion_road will be my nick while I'm on the road and my road key remains the same.
Day changed to 2023-05-15
[01:40] dorion_road: smooth sailing to vt, arrived a coupla hours ago.
[15:11] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7456 -- yes, i think that would be best
[15:11] sourcerer: 2023-05-13 13:35:27 (#jwrd) dorion: caai, lolz, right, the tweak then is that they're willing to learn.
[15:11] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7454 -- nice!
[15:11] sourcerer: 2023-05-13 01:48:11 (#jwrd) jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/grand-reopening-of-jwrd-the-irc-channel/ - with the corresponding update and some further color added to my front page too.
Day changed to 2023-05-16
[15:37] sstacks: hope you guys well
[15:38] sstacks: geting back home on Friday 7pm-ish
[15:56] dorion_road: hey sstacks, how goes in colombia ?
[16:13] sstacks: love it.. its truly amazing!
[16:14] sstacks: Yesterday we visited the Salt Mines
[19:33] jfw_travel: checking in from San Blas, arrived yesterday evening
[19:34] jfw_travel: weather has been overcast but pleasant. excellent snorkeling this am.
[19:41] jfw_travel: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7456 - "willing" sounds a bit like "if it pays well enough and isn't too inconvenient". perhaps fine for starters but what we really want is more "thirsting" i'd think.
[19:41] sourcerer: 2023-05-13 13:35:27 (#jwrd) dorion: caai, lolz, right, the tweak then is that they're willing to learn.
Day changed to 2023-05-18
[14:34] caai: mplayer -loop 2 Soun*Pacific*
[14:34] caai: Sorry, wrong terminal
[14:34] caai: hahaha
[15:41] caai: lately, i have been trying to have less screen time. therefore, i open a terminal and cd into my music library. next, i turn my screen off. i then type in the cli using 'mplayer', 'tab completion' and 'wildcards' to play music without viewing the screen
[15:45] caai: jfw_travel: enjoy San Blas! it is beautiful up there. learn the fine art of growing tired of eating lobster
[16:43] jfw: caai: nice use of wildcards; sounds like a dubious method of reducing screen time though, heh
[16:43] jfw: I guess it's a skill of its own though, CLIing blind
[16:46] jfw: caai: sadly my trip ended up a bit shorter than expected, but yes, the 4 fresh lobster tails for $10 was quite nice.
[16:59] caai: it has helped a little bit in reducing screen time. one must experiment. all experiments don't directly lead to success. the continual process of experimenting, gathering feedback, anaylizing the feedback, refining the experiment does though
[17:01] caai: was that your first time in San Blas?
[21:15] jfw: caai: fair enough.
[21:15] jfw: and yes it was my first time; finally checked off that box, as they say.
Day changed to 2023-05-19
[15:37] caai: nice. it is worth visiting
[17:05] jfw: caai: where do you stay when you go? I saw the island we were at had some basic cabanyas at least, no idea how I'd book one though
[17:41] jfw: caai: in curious coincidences, would you still have sent me a linkedin invite if I hadn't just written this revocation?
[17:55] jfw: I still get the odd notification email from them, it's just not possible to respond to them in any way. pretty good definition of spamming, it seems to me, and quite popular with "service providers" these days.
[17:58] jfw: for all linkedin knows I've been dead for years, and yet they still show me to recruiters. such valuable leads database!
[23:38] jfw: caai: there's a plan afoot to catch a game at Fenicia at 7:30pm today then maybe head to casco.
Day changed to 2023-05-21
[03:43] caai: jfw: i do not recall where i stayed. i have only gone once and that was some years ago
[03:45] caai: i was unaware of what you had written. i sent you an invite because you appeared in a feed during my monthly login
[03:47] caai: i just now saw the message about Fencia last night. thanks for the invite.
Day changed to 2023-05-23
[14:50] jfw: ahoy sstacks, how'd the travels wind up?
[17:16] jfw: whaack: one trick I came across in sqlite tuning was the ANALYZE command, which helps the query optimizer avoid horribly wrong choices in some cases (such as the order in which to apply filters), dunno if that'd be helpful to your block explorer. unfortunately it's slow but only needs to be done once (or whenever the "shape" of the
[17:16] jfw: data changes significantly)
[17:28] jfw: without it I hit this perverse situation where dropping an index actually *increased* a query's performance significantly (as in the difference between immediate response and having to wait around), because it forced it to use another index which provided the better initial filter.
[20:12] whaack2: hey are we on for today?
[20:46] jfw: whaack: can't speak for anyone else but I'm on!
[22:08] sstacks: Hey guys, so sorry for delay
Day changed to 2023-05-24
[01:30] jfw: A neat thing I turned up, for the musicians among us: https://abcnotation.com/
[01:36] jfw: with this format & its supporting software I've been able to input passages in plain ASCII in a nicely concise form - including with polyphony, though I had to dig a bit deeper for that - then convert this source to graphical (staff) notation (using abcm2ps) as well as MIDI file (abc2mid), and thence to audible sound (that's a more involved process but I've been using fluidsynth)
[01:37] jfw: this is all on gentoo
[01:46] jfw: whaack: from what I gathered of your Apollo adventures, most of the effort there was on waveform synthesis, is that right? how did that go, did you get realistic or at least interesting sounding instrument voices? anything stand out as worth reading from the prior art?
[01:49] jfw: dorion_road: comment in your mod queue, again without the expected label to that effect in the page as shown to me; not urgent so possibly worth usign to take a look into why it's doing that
[02:00] jfw: looks like fixpoint has the same problem, just nobody ever noticed? here's where it's supposed to come from but possibly all that schmancy class-based stuff isn't actually being used
[02:51] jfw: sure enough, default/kubrick theme calls fancy functions while classic theme does its own simple for-loop
[02:52] jfw: the "by 'themes' what we actually meant was 'totally different frontend rendering engines'" thing is quite the ugly rake they put in for me to step on.
[02:55] jfw: iirc I chose mine based on liking the variable width and that the html/css looked more manageable as a starting point; didn't realize all sorts of functionality was going to be broken/different.
[03:28] dorion_road: welcome barbarian.
[14:01] sstacks: Hey frenes. I reiterate my apologies for delay yesterday, as thank you all for all the value provided. Ill check out the recording during the day.
[14:03] sstacks: jfw: yesterday when we were trying the optical transmitter I had to open a different shell to verify input, why is this? Also, what does the hexdump command means?
[16:27] jfw: sstacks: no harm done this time around, we turned it into a nice social hour anyway.
[16:31] jfw: sstacks: hex is short for hexadecimal which means a base-16 representation of numbers. it uses the usual 10 digits 0-9, then adds on the letters A-F to represent the values ten through fifteen.
[16:32] jfw: it's commonly used for human display of computer numbers because each hex digit corresponds exactly to a group of four bits (2^4 = 16), thus two digits is exactly a byte and so on.
[16:33] jfw: so a hex dump is a printable representation of arbitrary binary data which may include letters, numbers, whitespace, control codes, and system-dependent symbols or otherwise unprintable characters.
[16:36] jfw: the conventional layout (per hexdump -C) is a byte counter/address in the left column, hex values in the center column(s), and in the right column, a direct printout of whichever characters are safely printable with dots (.) for the rest, so you can pick out whatever readable snippets might be in it.
[16:38] jfw: sstacks: you needed two shells because there's a sending side and a receiving side, so you needed the hexdump running to capture the receiving side at the same time as you're running whatever program to do the sending. otherwise you're shouting in a forest with nobody around to listen, so to speak.
[16:40] jfw: in the simplified one-machine setup from yesterday, the two shells took the place of two separate machines.
[17:02] sstacks: jfw: ok, so using two shells was the maneuver to simulate com between two machines. And, would it be safe to say that the hexdump is a command that facilitates a human-readable language of computer data?
[17:13] jfw: sstacks: I wouldn't go so far as to say "language", but yes, a legible view of data in its lowest level, raw form (byte sequence)
[17:21] sstacks: jfw: Noted, thanks!
[17:37] jfw: sstacks: you're welcome!
Day changed to 2023-05-25
[03:09] jfw: another earthquake in panama city.
[13:29] sstacks: jfw: yes, felt it too, i thought it was my whisky's effect, until it was evident it wasent. Its the second most prolonged one ive felt.
[16:38] jfw: sstacks: probably the most prolonged for me. nothing fell but the blinds and a hanging light were swaying quite a bit
Day changed to 2023-05-29
[21:28] sstacks: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/4ggayda67z -- whaack, sstacks
[22:21] sstacks: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/bpwghegwqn --whaack, sstacks. Lesson 10 hw..
[22:21] sstacks: Previous was lesson 9+
[23:48] jfw: yay! will give it a look, sstacks.
Day changed to 2023-05-30
[12:32] sstacks: jfw: Morning. Yes, I must say, wouldnt been possible without whaack. I forgot exporting input history for further analysis.
[20:00] jfw: sstacks: good for whaack then, although asking the teacher is an option too :)
[20:00] jfw: sstacks: the transactions look good to me, but there was the question of what happens when you try to broadcast (push) them?
[20:01] sstacks: jfw: It is. Thing is we did the hw together as he dosent has the hardware
[20:01] sstacks: jfw: yes, i took a picture of the output
[20:01] jfw: can you describe or summarize it perhaps?
[20:02] jfw: the CLI is about verbal over visual thinking, after all
[20:04] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7535 - that's fine; I was just addressing the "wouldn't have been possible without".
[20:04] sourcerer: 2023-05-30 20:01:05 (#jwrd) sstacks: jfw: It is. Thing is we did the hw together as he dosent has the hardware
[20:05] jfw: new gpg key looks good too, as far as I can tell from afar!
[20:06] sstacks: jfw: ohh right! Agreed. Thanks for mentioning it.
[20:07] jfw: no prob.
[20:08] sstacks: jfw: basically tx got rejected. Throws a JSONRPCError
[20:08] jfw: any specifics on the error (a message or code perhaps)?
[20:09] sstacks: jfw: gbw-node: JSONRPCError (-25, u'tx rejected, see log for details')
[20:10] sstacks: This is the output.. it was shown 3 times (guessing because we tried to push 3 txs
[20:10] jfw: sounds right
[20:11] jfw: so we'd have to check debug.log (from the exact right time) to find the specific reason - not the most helpful software huh.
[20:11] sstacks: jfw: btw, it was exciting see the optical diodes do their thing
[20:12] jfw: nice!
[20:13] sstacks: jfw: yes, maybe we should check the log just to please curiosity
[20:13] jfw: sure why not, practice some 'less' skills.
[20:14] jfw: I'll be afk for now though.
[20:37] sstacks: jfw: trying to locate the debug.log. Havent been successful
[22:43] dorion_road: sstacks, ~/.bitcoin/debug.log
[22:56] sstacks: dorion_road, thanks bro
[23:03] jfw: I believe it turned out they did find the log file, just had trouble finding the relevant lines in it amid the steady torrent of messages from the sync / normal operations.
[23:04] sstacks: jfw: neither
[23:05] jfw: sstacks: oh ok, then just finding the log sounds like a good next step.
[23:06] jfw: whaack had mentioned that trouble but perhaps it was more theoretical.
[23:06] sstacks: jfw: yes, i was actually hoping that i could find that log on the gbw-node directory.. but I guesss that bitcoind makes more sense
[23:08] jfw: right, because it's bitcoind that validates transactions & blocks.
[23:09] sstacks: jfw: precisely
[23:11] jfw: sstacks, whaack: once the recording finishes processing/uploading, you should be able to use the end of it for guidance on the homework. we didn't get to the material on "tar" but there's no assignment for that as yet.
[23:11] sstacks: jfw: noted, thanks for your neat job
[23:29] jfw: just corrected the formatting & content flaws I'd noted in the outline so give that a refresh too.
[23:30] jfw: (for one, since "swapon -s" isn't supported on busybox, "cat /proc/swaps" works to list currently active swap device mappings in Gales. I basically only noticed this now because I don't use swap anywhere these days.)
Day changed to 2023-05-31
[01:52] jfw: and for any waiting with bated breath - video's up.
[02:07] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-May-2023/#7568 - I had to go back in the recordings to see what's up with that, and found that I did indeed notice it / hit the problem the last time through this material, just didn't take note enough to do something about it.
[02:07] sourcerer: 2023-05-30 23:30:43 (#jwrd) jfw: (for one, since "swapon -s" isn't supported on busybox, "cat /proc/swaps" works to list currently active swap device mappings in Gales. I basically only noticed this now because I don't use swap anywhere these days.)
[18:26] jfw: I'm reading that fresh milled flour, as I kind of expected from experience with coffee, tastes & smells noticeably better than the mass-production supermarket shelf fodder, and the unground wheat berries can keep longer. It's said to be more difficult to bake with though, or at least different, so perhaps better used as part of a blend. Home kitchen scale milling machines do exist; how much to
[18:26] jfw: shell out is a question, but it might even be doable with a humble blender such as I already have. So, all that remains is to find where to order the grains and start experimenting!
[18:35] jfw: There doesn't seem to be any wheat production in Panama, at least I didn't find any and gossip says that the plant needs at least some degree of colder winter. There is local milling but it sprays out only the cheap white junk with all the additives; better imported flours are available in some stores but rather outrageously priced. Hence the desire to in-source a bit more of the supply chain.
[18:48] jfw: those prices may be a more global effect though, what with the ukraine situation and general inflation.
[18:53] sstacks: jfw: Wife and I avoid most of the refined flour as we can. I love it, but is so toxic and bad for organism. Its even addictive, as a drug. As we try to find a better option, we buy "wholemeal" flour on supermarket and "almond" flour sold in Price Smart. Im pretty sure these are not best options we could get. If you have a recommendation, we would be thankful.
[19:05] jfw: sstacks: where or what mark do you get for "wholemeal"? just curious as I don't recall seeing that specifically
[19:08] jfw: there is this trend of thinking that grains as a whole are unhealthy (or even plant foods altogether!); I don't really subscribe, though that could just be because I love good bread.
[19:10] sstacks: jfw: Natuforte is the brand
[19:11] jfw: sstacks: ah, the 'harina integral' in small greenish plastic bags?
[19:12] sstacks: jfw: That same one
[19:13] jfw: I tried that years ago and found the texture suspicious, like it's basically white flour with just a bit of bran & germ mixed back in; and significant impurities, little black flakes of god knows what that I was picking out of the dough, ugh.
[19:13] sstacks: jfw: I feel you. What you currently use?
[19:15] jfw: currently I use King Arthur brand which is unbleached & free of additives as far as I know and certainly comes out tasty. Found the Bread & Whole Wheat varieties at Super Kosher around $1.60/lb, which I used to get in the States for $1/lb. Not too bad though.
[19:16] jfw: sstacks: what do you & wife like to bake?
[19:19] jfw: checking one uncited chart, the global prices should be back down now; from $5/bushel in 2019 it spiked to $12 in 2022 and now back down just over $6.
[19:21] sstacks: jfw: You find King Arthur at Super Kosher as well? As im a bread lover (bad bread) my wife ought to learn how to bake bread. Avoiding everything that is refined.
[19:26] jfw: correct, at super kosher. they just didn't have the All-Purpose variety which is better for sweets (I do cookies & pancakes on occasion).
[19:27] jfw: but I've been doing my own sourdough pretty consistently since 2018 or so.
[19:28] jfw: you guys want to come over some time & learn? just pick up the flour for me since I'm running low and it'll be a deal
[19:45] jfw: my process takes about an hour of human time per loaf counting the prep & cleanup: mix, rest & knead in the evening, proof overnight, shape loaf & bake the next day.