Day changed to 2020-12-01
[07:13] cruciform: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Nov-2020/#907 -- great
[07:13] sourcerer: 2020-11-30 17:12:32 (#jwrd) jfw: cruciform: maintaining the USD price of the product and evaluating exchange rate on the day of payment suits me
[07:14] cruciform: I'm afraid I'm still under the weather; can we postpone today's session - perhaps rescheduling for Thursday 18:00 UTC?
[13:05] dorion: cruciform, rest up and feel better. I'll let jfw confirm, but pretty sure that'll work for him. did you receive the email with hw 4 & 5 corrections ?
[15:04] jfw: cruciform: yup that works for me, feel better. btw, I've uploaded last week's recording to the class file tree; I'll keep these up until the end of each module.
[15:29] jfw: billymg: any idea how it might be that pingbacks worked at least to the standard they normally "work" for mysql-based article updates for diana_coman but aren't doing so for me?
[16:34] billymg: jfw: unfortunately i'm not very familiar with the pingback code in mp-wp, except knowing that it's been a recurring point of frustration for people. do they work for you for non-log posts? did they work at some point and then stop working?
[16:42] jfw: they work in the sense of sending one or two pings at a time when I publish or save a previously published article through the web admin interface. They don't appear to work for me when using mysql directly.
[17:51] billymg: jfw: ah, i see. yeah i'm not sure what's going on there
Day changed to 2020-12-02
[01:20] dorion: hey billymg, how goes ?
[01:23] dorion: in other goings, let's see where this one goes: https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux/20201202#c6028801
[03:41] dorion: tis been interesting.
[04:23] jfw: dorion: hey thanks for venturing forth. you know the square bracketed link notation is of republican provenance though? (phf specifically.) Like citation quoting and selection linking and basically all the nice things it dun do much in the barren surroundings
[04:25] dorion: jfw, yeah, I know.
[04:25] jfw: it's rare enough to even have public logs (and observe those folks don't evidently find it important enough to run their own, seem to be using whatever public toilet was convenient)
[04:25] jfw: but boy does it optimize those github links all nice and tidy!
[04:27] jfw: I hadn't encountered oasis or cproc
[04:28] dorion: my approach right now is to use the forms of expression I recognize as superior and see who says what.
[04:29] jfw: main reason tcc isn't that interesting to me is that while cpu and C standards support might improve, it does zilch for c++ so we'd be stuck with gcc anyway
[04:31] jfw: I can see that approach; though I wonder at what point it's more like talking latin to the locals (...Romanian to the Anglos?)
[04:33] dorion: jfw, that i don't know.
[12:08] cruciform: jfw, dorion -- I'm still pretty out of it; can we move back tomorrow's session to Tuesday 8th @ 18:00 UTC?
[12:09] cruciform: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/category/logs/jwrd-logs/#965 -- received, thanks
[12:40] dorion: cruciform, ^ didn't quote because you're using the category, not the article for the month, i.e. http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Dec-2020/#965
[12:40] sourcerer: 2020-12-01 13:05:19 (#jwrd) dorion: cruciform, rest up and feel better. I'll let jfw confirm, but pretty sure that'll work for him. did you receive the email with hw 4 & 5 corrections ?
[12:40] dorion: next tuesday is fine by me, rest up and get better will ya ?
[14:28] dorion: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Dec-2020/#973 -- a couple links : http://bootstrappable.org/ , https://reproducible-builds.org/tools/
[14:28] sourcerer: 2020-12-02 03:41:13 (#jwrd) dorion: tis been interesting.
[16:03] whaack: dorion: heyo, not too many new developments here. Been mostly focused on spinning around on my surfboard and developing a tremolo on the guitar. Broke the non-writing streak yesterday with a couple of paragraphs yesterday, I'm feeling the energy to get a writing streak going
[16:05] dorion: hey whaack, good to hear from you. I left a comment that's in your mod queue.
[16:05] dorion: gonna be publishing any recordings of the guitar developments ?
[16:28] whaack: sure i'd love to, although I'd prefer to find a half decent mic setup first. Maybe the pnoje is good enough
Day changed to 2020-12-03
[01:22] jfw: cruciform: I should be explicit - yep, see you next Tuesday. Plague 2.0?
[06:09] jfw: billymg: any reason you don't just link to your patches & seals in http://billymg.com/mp-wp-vtree/ and http://billymg.com/mp-wp-tests-vtree/ ? I did a wget -m to make sure I had everything without having to copy & paste into the terminal like a monkey - er, PHP coder, para no insultar los monos - then found I still didn't have everything
[06:11] jfw: I even let apache do the work and nobody seems to mind
[11:20] cruciform: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Dec-2020/#994 -- nothing so in-vogue; just a generic malaise
[11:20] sourcerer: 2020-12-03 01:22:32 (#jwrd) jfw: cruciform: I should be explicit - yep, see you next Tuesday. Plague 2.0?
[11:21] cruciform: I may have to delay payment from Sunday until Tuesday. I'm happy to offer the option of locking in Sunday's BTC price, if you guys want
[14:35] dorion: cruciform, ok. how's your progress with hw 6 ? are you going to utilize office hours today ?
[16:20] cruciform: dorion, I've not got started on it, yet. I won't need office hours today - thanks
[16:56] billymg: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Dec-2020/#995 << yeah, it's kind of silly the way it is now, i've been meaning to change that. right now other obligations have kept me from doing anything with my blog or mp-wp, but i'm hoping to wind some stuff down in the next few months
[16:56] sourcerer: 2020-12-03 06:09:15 (#jwrd) jfw: billymg: any reason you don't just link to your patches & seals in http://billymg.com/mp-wp-vtree/ and http://billymg.com/mp-wp-tests-vtree/ ? I did a wget -m to make sure I had everything without having to copy & paste into the terminal like a monkey - er, PHP coder, para no insultar los monos - then found I still didn't have everything
Day changed to 2020-12-07
[15:09] dorion: hey cruciform, how goes mate ?
[15:11] dorion: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Nov-2020/#892 -- hey whitehorn, how goes on your side ? did you manage to complete the BUILD ?
[15:11] sourcerer: 2020-11-27 19:07:53 (#jwrd) whitehorn: with that patch to the cfns am thru 3.5
[23:13] dorion: cruciform, what's your status with hw 6 ? we've yet to receive it on our end. will you be recoverd and prepared for training tomorrow ?
[23:17] dorion: this is how we see it, given we notified you there will be no training the week of Dec 28th, you have two sessions left in the unix module with three weeks left in December.
[23:20] dorion: if you're not ready to go tomorrow, don't sweat it, but do get healthy. we can hold training 8 this Thursday or next Tuesday and session 9 Tuesday the 22nd. then we'd start you on the 2nd module Tuesday, January 5th.
[23:23] dorion: Please confirm asap how you want to proceed and saludos.
[23:43] cruciform: dorion, starting to feel more with it! I've not done hw6 yet, so how about we do training 8 this Thursday, and session 9 on the 22nd, as you suggest
[23:44] cruciform: I've got my node syncing to get payment sorted, but it won't be ready by tomorrow, as I'd hoped (probably not til this weekend). If you guys want to lock in tomorrow's BTC price, that's fine with me
[23:57] jfw: cruciform: ok on postponing tomorrow's session to Thursday. Is there something wrong with next Tuesday the 15th though?
Day changed to 2020-12-08
[00:01] jfw: for that payment, is it just the node sync that you're waiting on? I suppose it depends on the software but usually you can send a transaction even if not fully synced, unless you're depending on a newer incoming tx as the source.
[00:05] cruciform: jfw, next Tuesday 15th is fine; I must've missed something!
[00:06] jfw: I think he was just suggesting the 22nd in the event of pushing session 8 to next week.
[00:06] cruciform: my node software doesn't allow transactions until fully synced
[00:06] cruciform: gotcha; this Thursday, followed by next Tuesday works fine
[00:07] jfw: alright. I'll defer to dorion but think we'd prefer to set exchange rate on the day of payment.
[00:08] cruciform: no problem; wanted to offer you the option, since I'd promised payment tomorrow
[00:08] jfw: appreciated.
[18:38] jfw gets a bigger iptables hammer for these bots pounding on /xmlrpc.php - but congrats I guess for knocking over my mysqld for ~2 hours
Day changed to 2020-12-10
[16:17] cruciform: jfw, I've emailed you answers to Session 6's Homework
[16:24] dorion: cruciform, cheers, thanks for the update.
[18:59] jfw: heh, just as I'm talking about the fallen state of technology as regards DRAM reliability, the Zoom connection drops
[19:02] jfw: cruciform@2a02:[...] quits [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] << at least ipv6 came to save the day !11
[19:22] jfw: what DRAMs and Zooms - apparently it was a plumbing pipe that burst and shorted things out. Even the Rome level tech is a challenge these days
Day changed to 2020-12-11
[09:46] cruciform: jfw, apologies for the abrupt exit yesterday - a leaking pipe shorted all my sockets. Got your email; will pickup on Tuesday
[09:47] cruciform: (someone thought it a great idea to put the washing machine power socket directly underneath the kitchen sink overflow pipe)
[18:46] billymg: jfw: sorry for the delay, just replied to your comment
[22:37] jfw: billymg: replied, ty for the ping.
[23:02] jfw: cruciform: no worries.
Day changed to 2020-12-13
[16:18] cruciform: jfw, dorion do you wanna sort out Module 2+3 payment today?
[17:17] billymg: jfw: np, and thank you for the reply. it forced me to think about mp-wp customizability in more depth
[17:19] billymg: jfw: i took some time to (attempt to) articulate my thoughts/reasoning and address the points you brought up: http://billymg.com/2020/06/the-mp-wp-weightloss-program-removing-javascript/comment-page-1/#comment-201
[21:34] jfw: cruciform: better tomorrow as dorion is afk.
[21:36] jfw: billymg: glad to hear it, will have a look in a bit. (apparently my words force people to do things now, heh)
[21:40] billymg: jfw: had they come from anyone in my wot they would've had the same effect tbh, possibly even if from some rando. anyone who takes the time to read my articles/patches and post thoughtful feedback deserves a thoughtful response
[21:41] billymg: jfw: you just tend to do so more frequently than most!
[21:43] jfw: sounds like a decent approach.
[21:46] jfw: publishing meaningful work on stuff I depend on is pretty likely to bring that feedback too
[21:48] jfw: (if sometimes delayed.)
Day changed to 2020-12-14
[13:13] cruciform: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Dec-2020/#1036 -- great; I'm around all day today
[13:13] sourcerer: 2020-12-13 21:34:43 (#jwrd) jfw: cruciform: better tomorrow as dorion is afk.
[18:00] dorion: cruciform, jfw, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=7may , http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ymqZ
[18:06] cruciform: dorion, I'll have a read in 30 mins or so, thanks
[19:40] cruciform: jfw, dorion looks good to me; 1 question - which address are you shipping to?
[19:43] jfw: cruciform: only one I'm aware of is the Bath one shown in the invoice
[19:44] cruciform: aha, yes - I'd derped; thanks
[19:44] cruciform: In that case, I'm ready to send payment
[19:45] jfw: cool, we'll get signatures out shortly.
[19:59] dorion: cruciform, cool, glad it's clear.
[20:15] jfw: dorion, cruciform: shipping is indicated as UPS Worldwide Expedited on the invoice proper but the price seems to be for the Worldwide Express Plus shown in the notes. Which are we going with?
[20:19] jfw: the router console cable is missing from the subtotal
[20:22] jfw: re shipping speed, we realized it wasn't realistic to get it shipped before Christmas (as we have some but not all ingredients stocked), so perhaps less point in going with the fastest option.
[20:22] cruciform: so, the hardware package is in fact $2018; not $2000?
[20:23] cruciform: jfw, yes - I may be moving address any time from the 7th of January, though - so as long as it arrives before then
[20:24] jfw: note that we can only go by what UPS says; no guarantee it doesn't get slowed down in customs for example.
[20:25] cruciform: that's no problem
[20:26] jfw: I'll let dorion confirm re pricing.
[20:39] dorion: cruciform, yeah, the article doesn't include a USB-RJ45 converter cable.
[20:49] cruciform: ok; the cheapest $288 shipping option will be fine
[20:55] jfw: cruciform: given the location uncertainty we could postpone shipping until you know; the first couple classes can be done without the hardware anyway. Would that make more sense?
[20:56] jfw: if you're moving outside UK though the customs question would be back to the drawing board.
[20:58] cruciform: I'll be moving outside the UK, yea - it'll be easier to get it shipped to me before I move
[20:58] cruciform: (doesn't everyone travel with 4+ laptops?)
[20:59] jfw: most "trouble" I ever got for it was "wao, tanta technologia!"
[20:59] cruciform: I've had "Starship Enterprise" comments on my triple monitors & 5.1 speakers
[21:00] cruciform: lol @ the translation of the above
[21:02] jfw: importing servers from uruguay to panama had them sit there blinking a while longer until convinced they weren't TVs or something
[21:55] jfw: cruciform, dorion: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Id9W
[21:56] jfw: changes from last draft: precise amount and replacing "Downpayment" with "Settlement".
[22:00] dorion: cruciform, jfw, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=set2
[22:00] cruciform: dorion, jfw, I'll be afk for a couple of hours
[22:01] dorion: cruciform, thanks for the heads up, we'll be around later.
[22:51] jfw: http://archive.is/tgpC0 << a winning "SEO expert" / plagiarist is Devendra! I'm adding this USB port grip strengthening dentistry to my standard refurb process.
[23:59] cruciform: dorion, jfw, back now; shall we complete the payment?
Day changed to 2020-12-15
[00:00] jfw: I'm here; did you need anything more from us?
[00:00] cruciform: just checking your revised contract
[00:04] cruciform: looks good; sending payment
[00:09] cruciform: payment sent - cheers
[00:21] jfw: And confirmed - tyvm!
[00:26] dorion: cheers, cruciform.
[03:16] jfw: I recently learned that while the spotlight was on SSDs, ye good old HDD tech was quietly subverted, cheapened and complicated via Shingled Magnetic Recording (SMR)
[03:23] jfw: Apparently the read heads could be made smaller than the write heads, so the approach to increasing density was ~ painting over previous brushstrokes, with offset; meaning they have to be 'painted' in sequential order; meaning no more sector-level random access writes; meaning more controller-level indirection, unpredictable performance dropoffs, and - it seems to me - the assumptions on which
[03:23] jfw: database transaction durability guarantees rest coming into question
[05:41] jfw: ALL current sleazegate 2.5" drives and many 3.5" drives afflicted
[05:42] jfw: Western Digitals, Toshibas
[05:57] jfw: moar WD and eaten-HGST
[15:33] jfw: dorion: I'm thinking the daemontools and slashpackage material fits better in Intermediate or possibly Advanced. They're not as fundamental as the other stuff in beginner; they won't get used in practice much until later and thus will be easily forgotten; they'll be new to people otherwise versed in Unix who should be able to skip Beginner; and finally we've found there's quite enough material
[15:33] jfw: already in Beginner relative to the time.
[15:49] jfw: cruciform: how's it going on homework 7?
[16:20] cruciform: jfw, totally forgot about it, apologies; can I get it to you prior to Thursday office hours?
[16:26] jfw: lolz, I even thought you might have just this morning started on it but you've even raised the bar now!
[16:28] jfw: I'd rather not plow ahead with new stuff without getting the practice in on the old; how about we use the time today to check in, go over homework 6, and finish off last week's interrupted lecture, then finish off with session 9 next Tuesday
[16:31] jfw: especially considering as how homework 6 was apparently entirely bewildering once the questions ventured outside rote recall to demanding some actual thinking
[16:32] cruciform: yes, quite - sounds good
[16:32] jfw: cool, cya at 18:00 then.
[19:07] dorion: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Dec-2020/#1090 -- ok, makes sense. we had it there originally because the proximate lessons were the gales linux build and install. those are now in advanced.
[19:07] sourcerer: 2020-12-15 15:33:32 (#jwrd) jfw: dorion: I'm thinking the daemontools and slashpackage material fits better in Intermediate or possibly Advanced. They're not as fundamental as the other stuff in beginner; they won't get used in practice much until later and thus will be easily forgotten; they'll be new to people otherwise versed in Unix who should be able to skip Beginner; and finally we've found there's quite enough material
Day changed to 2020-12-16
[20:18] jfw: billymg: replied.
[20:36] jfw: dorion: it's occurred to me that an important project for me this week in light of getting the machines prepared for cruciform would be doing a fresh Gales build addressing as many of the accumulated notes as I can get to in a reasonable timespan
[20:38] jfw: that might include moving towards a V genesis by inlining some of the smaller yet important tarball sources into the main repository and making the scripts work without requiring the execute bit
Day changed to 2020-12-17
[00:00] dorion: jfw, ok, makes sense.
[18:14] jfw: cruciform: do I hear the beads of sweat forming over there?
[18:15] cruciform: aye - I'm behind schedule :P (though should have it done before the clock strikes 12..)
[18:17] jfw: alright - well if you get it in by tonight I'll see to getting it checked on this cycle. Homework #8 is uploaded and is due Tuesday as per usual
[18:18] cruciform: great, thanks
Day changed to 2020-12-20
[17:40] billymg: jfw: left a reply
[23:00] dorion: hey dilynm, how goes ? did you get a start on that gales build ?
[23:01] dorion: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-nov-2020/#960
[23:01] sourcerer: 2020-11-30 20:34:39 (#jwrd) dilynm: Just looking at it, I'd think it falls somewhere in between. I'll probably have a go at it before the end of the year
Day changed to 2020-12-21
[01:05] dilynm: Was gonna give it a go this week
[01:06] dilynm: Got distracted by my own static adventure, hit a wall so I've been focusing on firefox sans Xorg for the last two weeks :S
[01:32] dorion: dilynm, nice, let us know how it goes.
[01:32] dorion: dilynm, where'd you hit a wall in your static adventure ?
[01:32] dilynm: Python/meson
[01:33] dilynm: Meson for some reason desperately wants me to have ctypes and I won't let it
[01:33] dorion: dilynm, what version of firefox are you basing that on ? and what're you using in place of Xorg ?
[01:34] dilynm: 83, Wayland
[01:34] dilynm: Hopefully 85 will be better
[01:35] dorion just last week installed v45 on gentoo.
[01:37] dorion: was the oldest one in my 2017 portage tree. after v52 or so it starts requiring pulseaudio, which I have masked because of... dbus or some other such tumor it depends on.
[01:37] dorion: dilynm, how long ya gonna hope for ?
[01:37] dilynm: Allegedly also support is just hidden behind a configure flag
[01:37] dorion: support for what now ?
[01:37] dilynm: I'm not hoping very much which is why I'm working on it myself instead of waiting; these bug reports have been pending since 2010 lmao
[01:38] dilynm: Alsa support*
[01:38] dorion: could be gentoo braindamage, sure. I didn't dig deep enough to find out.
[02:44] dorion: dilynm, if you're going to hang around here, please either a) get a better connection/run your client on a server or b) join and part cleanly when you want to speak and to otherwise keep up to date, read the logs on fixpoint. the join/part spam is a non zero cost.
[02:55] dilynm: Ooff. Sorry, thought I'd disconnected
[05:37] jfw: billymg: ack.
[05:41] jfw: dilynm, what do you find to be wrong about Xorg yet right about Wayland?
[05:42] jfw: and, have you mapped out that "firefox 85" dependency tree? I'd like to behold that wonder
[05:47] jfw: "Meson" - burn it!! we do not need yet another wannabe-automake, the original is barely justified as is.
[05:50] jfw: dorion: I'll be mildly curious to learn whether your v45 suffers from that "strict transport security" (HSTS) atrocity. if we manage to do a browser build, that's getting chopped for sure
[05:51] jfw: good call on pulseaudio, it's actually one of the earlier poetteringisms (literally). something of a test run for the systemd takeover, "if they're dumb enough to adopt this across the board then they'll eat anything"
[05:55] jfw: I'll note that audio, like gfx, is not as yet addressed in Gales. I did find "salsa-lib" as a promising contender for static linkable ALSA implementation.
[05:59] jfw: I should also note that if you want the 'audio experience the user has come to expect' on Linux i.e. unlimited sources with software mixing and acceptable latency at least in some cases, there isn't much choice but pulseaudio.
Day changed to 2020-12-22
[15:57] cruciform: jfw, I've emailed you homeworks 7 (for the record: tardily) and 8; the former I've also sent a revised version of, after spotting a syntax error
[15:58] jfw: cruciform: got them, thx.
Day changed to 2020-12-26
[13:43] dorion: in disk developments : https://www.ibm.com/blogs/research/2020/12/tape-density-record/
[21:49] jfw: so tape is set to maintain its potential as the storage tech that makes most effective use of all three spatial dimensions.
[21:52] jfw: hm, that's poorly worded but not sure how to better put it. It has that potential from a purely geometric standpoint, while it's apparently set to stay competitive on the basis of further realization of said potential.
[21:53] jfw: see how SSDs for instance have moved to some level of vertical stacking, but that's still within the confines of a fairly thin wafer.
[21:55] jfw: or more like stack of sheets, baklava style, but in an overall flat package.
[22:00] jfw: "when not in use, tape requires no energy unlike hard disks and flash." - that seems a stretch too far, when unqualified like that; nothing stopping anyone from keeping a cold library of hdds. What they perhaps meant is that there's not much tech for automating that at scale as there is for tape.
[22:04] jfw: "a technology more than 60 years old" - arguably way older, like Library of Alexandria older! The random-access block device interface presented by bookbinding is the more recent
[22:21] jfw: As per Medieval Tech Support (now rescued from youtube).
Day changed to 2020-12-29
[04:06] jfw: cruciform: my estimated date of departure for your package is Wednesday the 30th; I'll update here if this changes.
[14:03] cruciform: jfw, sounds good; merry Christmas and happy new year!
Day changed to 2020-12-30
[19:53] jfw: cruciform: merry new yearsmas to you too.
[19:58] jfw: cruciform: I'm getting down to the wire and it's not looking good for shipment today - might spill to tomorrow and then I'm not sure what the courier delays might look like given the holiday. You had to extend your lease and push back moveout already, right? Do you have an updated deadline for retrieving the shipment?
[20:02] jfw: The hardware is still looking fine but I ran into some technical debts / reminders of past ugliness that I couldn't stand anymore on the software side and fell into a bit of a hole working on that.
[20:07] jfw: A new Gales Linux release with much improved build process, assorted bugs fixed and feedback addressed will be coming out shortly.
[20:08] jfw: I apologize for the delays, cruciform.
[20:21] jfw: I'm also thinking to make public my Linux kernel .config. I've been reluctant for one thing because it's the result of navigating a maze of hundreds of intermittently documented configuration choices about which I claim no expertise; but then, it's at least working, is relatively minimal as Linux kernels go, and is most probably better than what someone without my experience could come up with on
[20:21] jfw: their own.
[20:25] jfw: For another thing, it's pretty specific to the particular hardware we're selling and thus I might like to imagine it a part of our value-add; but then, in reality information can't really be sold more than once, and having more sunlight on it would be so much the better for the value & thus saleability of our hardware, or at least so the "open source" theory goes.
[20:27] jfw: and for other hardware it would still make a much easier starting point than a "make defconfig" or "make allnoconfig" or the like.
[07:13] cruciform: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Nov-2020/#907 -- great
[07:13] sourcerer: 2020-11-30 17:12:32 (#jwrd) jfw: cruciform: maintaining the USD price of the product and evaluating exchange rate on the day of payment suits me
[07:14] cruciform: I'm afraid I'm still under the weather; can we postpone today's session - perhaps rescheduling for Thursday 18:00 UTC?
[13:05] dorion: cruciform, rest up and feel better. I'll let jfw confirm, but pretty sure that'll work for him. did you receive the email with hw 4 & 5 corrections ?
[15:04] jfw: cruciform: yup that works for me, feel better. btw, I've uploaded last week's recording to the class file tree; I'll keep these up until the end of each module.
[15:29] jfw: billymg: any idea how it might be that pingbacks worked at least to the standard they normally "work" for mysql-based article updates for diana_coman but aren't doing so for me?
[16:34] billymg: jfw: unfortunately i'm not very familiar with the pingback code in mp-wp, except knowing that it's been a recurring point of frustration for people. do they work for you for non-log posts? did they work at some point and then stop working?
[16:42] jfw: they work in the sense of sending one or two pings at a time when I publish or save a previously published article through the web admin interface. They don't appear to work for me when using mysql directly.
[17:51] billymg: jfw: ah, i see. yeah i'm not sure what's going on there
Day changed to 2020-12-02
[01:20] dorion: hey billymg, how goes ?
[01:23] dorion: in other goings, let's see where this one goes: https://freenode.logbot.info/kisslinux/20201202#c6028801
[03:41] dorion: tis been interesting.
[04:23] jfw: dorion: hey thanks for venturing forth. you know the square bracketed link notation is of republican provenance though? (phf specifically.) Like citation quoting and selection linking and basically all the nice things it dun do much in the barren surroundings
[04:25] dorion: jfw, yeah, I know.
[04:25] jfw: it's rare enough to even have public logs (and observe those folks don't evidently find it important enough to run their own, seem to be using whatever public toilet was convenient)
[04:25] jfw: but boy does it optimize those github links all nice and tidy!
[04:27] jfw: I hadn't encountered oasis or cproc
[04:28] dorion: my approach right now is to use the forms of expression I recognize as superior and see who says what.
[04:29] jfw: main reason tcc isn't that interesting to me is that while cpu and C standards support might improve, it does zilch for c++ so we'd be stuck with gcc anyway
[04:31] jfw: I can see that approach; though I wonder at what point it's more like talking latin to the locals (...Romanian to the Anglos?)
[04:33] dorion: jfw, that i don't know.
[12:08] cruciform: jfw, dorion -- I'm still pretty out of it; can we move back tomorrow's session to Tuesday 8th @ 18:00 UTC?
[12:09] cruciform: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/category/logs/jwrd-logs/#965 -- received, thanks
[12:40] dorion: cruciform, ^ didn't quote because you're using the category, not the article for the month, i.e. http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Dec-2020/#965
[12:40] sourcerer: 2020-12-01 13:05:19 (#jwrd) dorion: cruciform, rest up and feel better. I'll let jfw confirm, but pretty sure that'll work for him. did you receive the email with hw 4 & 5 corrections ?
[12:40] dorion: next tuesday is fine by me, rest up and get better will ya ?
[14:28] dorion: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Dec-2020/#973 -- a couple links : http://bootstrappable.org/ , https://reproducible-builds.org/tools/
[14:28] sourcerer: 2020-12-02 03:41:13 (#jwrd) dorion: tis been interesting.
[16:03] whaack: dorion: heyo, not too many new developments here. Been mostly focused on spinning around on my surfboard and developing a tremolo on the guitar. Broke the non-writing streak yesterday with a couple of paragraphs yesterday, I'm feeling the energy to get a writing streak going
[16:05] dorion: hey whaack, good to hear from you. I left a comment that's in your mod queue.
[16:05] dorion: gonna be publishing any recordings of the guitar developments ?
[16:28] whaack: sure i'd love to, although I'd prefer to find a half decent mic setup first. Maybe the pnoje is good enough
Day changed to 2020-12-03
[01:22] jfw: cruciform: I should be explicit - yep, see you next Tuesday. Plague 2.0?
[06:09] jfw: billymg: any reason you don't just link to your patches & seals in http://billymg.com/mp-wp-vtree/ and http://billymg.com/mp-wp-tests-vtree/ ? I did a wget -m to make sure I had everything without having to copy & paste into the terminal like a monkey - er, PHP coder, para no insultar los monos - then found I still didn't have everything
[06:11] jfw: I even let apache do the work and nobody seems to mind
[11:20] cruciform: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Dec-2020/#994 -- nothing so in-vogue; just a generic malaise
[11:20] sourcerer: 2020-12-03 01:22:32 (#jwrd) jfw: cruciform: I should be explicit - yep, see you next Tuesday. Plague 2.0?
[11:21] cruciform: I may have to delay payment from Sunday until Tuesday. I'm happy to offer the option of locking in Sunday's BTC price, if you guys want
[14:35] dorion: cruciform, ok. how's your progress with hw 6 ? are you going to utilize office hours today ?
[16:20] cruciform: dorion, I've not got started on it, yet. I won't need office hours today - thanks
[16:56] billymg: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Dec-2020/#995 << yeah, it's kind of silly the way it is now, i've been meaning to change that. right now other obligations have kept me from doing anything with my blog or mp-wp, but i'm hoping to wind some stuff down in the next few months
[16:56] sourcerer: 2020-12-03 06:09:15 (#jwrd) jfw: billymg: any reason you don't just link to your patches & seals in http://billymg.com/mp-wp-vtree/ and http://billymg.com/mp-wp-tests-vtree/ ? I did a wget -m to make sure I had everything without having to copy & paste into the terminal like a monkey - er, PHP coder, para no insultar los monos - then found I still didn't have everything
Day changed to 2020-12-07
[15:09] dorion: hey cruciform, how goes mate ?
[15:11] dorion: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Nov-2020/#892 -- hey whitehorn, how goes on your side ? did you manage to complete the BUILD ?
[15:11] sourcerer: 2020-11-27 19:07:53 (#jwrd) whitehorn: with that patch to the cfns am thru 3.5
[23:13] dorion: cruciform, what's your status with hw 6 ? we've yet to receive it on our end. will you be recoverd and prepared for training tomorrow ?
[23:17] dorion: this is how we see it, given we notified you there will be no training the week of Dec 28th, you have two sessions left in the unix module with three weeks left in December.
[23:20] dorion: if you're not ready to go tomorrow, don't sweat it, but do get healthy. we can hold training 8 this Thursday or next Tuesday and session 9 Tuesday the 22nd. then we'd start you on the 2nd module Tuesday, January 5th.
[23:23] dorion: Please confirm asap how you want to proceed and saludos.
[23:43] cruciform: dorion, starting to feel more with it! I've not done hw6 yet, so how about we do training 8 this Thursday, and session 9 on the 22nd, as you suggest
[23:44] cruciform: I've got my node syncing to get payment sorted, but it won't be ready by tomorrow, as I'd hoped (probably not til this weekend). If you guys want to lock in tomorrow's BTC price, that's fine with me
[23:57] jfw: cruciform: ok on postponing tomorrow's session to Thursday. Is there something wrong with next Tuesday the 15th though?
Day changed to 2020-12-08
[00:01] jfw: for that payment, is it just the node sync that you're waiting on? I suppose it depends on the software but usually you can send a transaction even if not fully synced, unless you're depending on a newer incoming tx as the source.
[00:05] cruciform: jfw, next Tuesday 15th is fine; I must've missed something!
[00:06] jfw: I think he was just suggesting the 22nd in the event of pushing session 8 to next week.
[00:06] cruciform: my node software doesn't allow transactions until fully synced
[00:06] cruciform: gotcha; this Thursday, followed by next Tuesday works fine
[00:07] jfw: alright. I'll defer to dorion but think we'd prefer to set exchange rate on the day of payment.
[00:08] cruciform: no problem; wanted to offer you the option, since I'd promised payment tomorrow
[00:08] jfw: appreciated.
[18:38] jfw gets a bigger iptables hammer for these bots pounding on /xmlrpc.php - but congrats I guess for knocking over my mysqld for ~2 hours
Day changed to 2020-12-10
[16:17] cruciform: jfw, I've emailed you answers to Session 6's Homework
[16:24] dorion: cruciform, cheers, thanks for the update.
[18:59] jfw: heh, just as I'm talking about the fallen state of technology as regards DRAM reliability, the Zoom connection drops
[19:02] jfw: cruciform@2a02:[...] quits [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] << at least ipv6 came to save the day !11
[19:22] jfw: what DRAMs and Zooms - apparently it was a plumbing pipe that burst and shorted things out. Even the Rome level tech is a challenge these days
Day changed to 2020-12-11
[09:46] cruciform: jfw, apologies for the abrupt exit yesterday - a leaking pipe shorted all my sockets. Got your email; will pickup on Tuesday
[09:47] cruciform: (someone thought it a great idea to put the washing machine power socket directly underneath the kitchen sink overflow pipe)
[18:46] billymg: jfw: sorry for the delay, just replied to your comment
[22:37] jfw: billymg: replied, ty for the ping.
[23:02] jfw: cruciform: no worries.
Day changed to 2020-12-13
[16:18] cruciform: jfw, dorion do you wanna sort out Module 2+3 payment today?
[17:17] billymg: jfw: np, and thank you for the reply. it forced me to think about mp-wp customizability in more depth
[17:19] billymg: jfw: i took some time to (attempt to) articulate my thoughts/reasoning and address the points you brought up: http://billymg.com/2020/06/the-mp-wp-weightloss-program-removing-javascript/comment-page-1/#comment-201
[21:34] jfw: cruciform: better tomorrow as dorion is afk.
[21:36] jfw: billymg: glad to hear it, will have a look in a bit. (apparently my words force people to do things now, heh)
[21:40] billymg: jfw: had they come from anyone in my wot they would've had the same effect tbh, possibly even if from some rando. anyone who takes the time to read my articles/patches and post thoughtful feedback deserves a thoughtful response
[21:41] billymg: jfw: you just tend to do so more frequently than most!
[21:43] jfw: sounds like a decent approach.
[21:46] jfw: publishing meaningful work on stuff I depend on is pretty likely to bring that feedback too
[21:48] jfw: (if sometimes delayed.)
Day changed to 2020-12-14
[13:13] cruciform: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Dec-2020/#1036 -- great; I'm around all day today
[13:13] sourcerer: 2020-12-13 21:34:43 (#jwrd) jfw: cruciform: better tomorrow as dorion is afk.
[18:00] dorion: cruciform, jfw, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=7may , http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ymqZ
[18:06] cruciform: dorion, I'll have a read in 30 mins or so, thanks
[19:40] cruciform: jfw, dorion looks good to me; 1 question - which address are you shipping to?
[19:43] jfw: cruciform: only one I'm aware of is the Bath one shown in the invoice
[19:44] cruciform: aha, yes - I'd derped; thanks
[19:44] cruciform: In that case, I'm ready to send payment
[19:45] jfw: cool, we'll get signatures out shortly.
[19:59] dorion: cruciform, cool, glad it's clear.
[20:15] jfw: dorion, cruciform: shipping is indicated as UPS Worldwide Expedited on the invoice proper but the price seems to be for the Worldwide Express Plus shown in the notes. Which are we going with?
[20:19] jfw: the router console cable is missing from the subtotal
[20:22] jfw: re shipping speed, we realized it wasn't realistic to get it shipped before Christmas (as we have some but not all ingredients stocked), so perhaps less point in going with the fastest option.
[20:22] cruciform: so, the hardware package is in fact $2018; not $2000?
[20:23] cruciform: jfw, yes - I may be moving address any time from the 7th of January, though - so as long as it arrives before then
[20:24] jfw: note that we can only go by what UPS says; no guarantee it doesn't get slowed down in customs for example.
[20:25] cruciform: that's no problem
[20:26] jfw: I'll let dorion confirm re pricing.
[20:39] dorion: cruciform, yeah, the article doesn't include a USB-RJ45 converter cable.
[20:49] cruciform: ok; the cheapest $288 shipping option will be fine
[20:55] jfw: cruciform: given the location uncertainty we could postpone shipping until you know; the first couple classes can be done without the hardware anyway. Would that make more sense?
[20:56] jfw: if you're moving outside UK though the customs question would be back to the drawing board.
[20:58] cruciform: I'll be moving outside the UK, yea - it'll be easier to get it shipped to me before I move
[20:58] cruciform: (doesn't everyone travel with 4+ laptops?)
[20:59] jfw: most "trouble" I ever got for it was "wao, tanta technologia!"
[20:59] cruciform: I've had "Starship Enterprise" comments on my triple monitors & 5.1 speakers
[21:00] cruciform: lol @ the translation of the above
[21:02] jfw: importing servers from uruguay to panama had them sit there blinking a while longer until convinced they weren't TVs or something
[21:55] jfw: cruciform, dorion: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Id9W
[21:56] jfw: changes from last draft: precise amount and replacing "Downpayment" with "Settlement".
[22:00] dorion: cruciform, jfw, http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=set2
[22:00] cruciform: dorion, jfw, I'll be afk for a couple of hours
[22:01] dorion: cruciform, thanks for the heads up, we'll be around later.
[22:51] jfw: http://archive.is/tgpC0 << a winning "SEO expert" / plagiarist is Devendra! I'm adding this USB port grip strengthening dentistry to my standard refurb process.
[23:59] cruciform: dorion, jfw, back now; shall we complete the payment?
Day changed to 2020-12-15
[00:00] jfw: I'm here; did you need anything more from us?
[00:00] cruciform: just checking your revised contract
[00:04] cruciform: looks good; sending payment
[00:09] cruciform: payment sent - cheers
[00:21] jfw: And confirmed - tyvm!
[00:26] dorion: cheers, cruciform.
[03:16] jfw: I recently learned that while the spotlight was on SSDs, ye good old HDD tech was quietly subverted, cheapened and complicated via Shingled Magnetic Recording (SMR)
[03:23] jfw: Apparently the read heads could be made smaller than the write heads, so the approach to increasing density was ~ painting over previous brushstrokes, with offset; meaning they have to be 'painted' in sequential order; meaning no more sector-level random access writes; meaning more controller-level indirection, unpredictable performance dropoffs, and - it seems to me - the assumptions on which
[03:23] jfw: database transaction durability guarantees rest coming into question
[05:41] jfw: ALL current sleazegate 2.5" drives and many 3.5" drives afflicted
[05:42] jfw: Western Digitals, Toshibas
[05:57] jfw: moar WD and eaten-HGST
[15:33] jfw: dorion: I'm thinking the daemontools and slashpackage material fits better in Intermediate or possibly Advanced. They're not as fundamental as the other stuff in beginner; they won't get used in practice much until later and thus will be easily forgotten; they'll be new to people otherwise versed in Unix who should be able to skip Beginner; and finally we've found there's quite enough material
[15:33] jfw: already in Beginner relative to the time.
[15:49] jfw: cruciform: how's it going on homework 7?
[16:20] cruciform: jfw, totally forgot about it, apologies; can I get it to you prior to Thursday office hours?
[16:26] jfw: lolz, I even thought you might have just this morning started on it but you've even raised the bar now!
[16:28] jfw: I'd rather not plow ahead with new stuff without getting the practice in on the old; how about we use the time today to check in, go over homework 6, and finish off last week's interrupted lecture, then finish off with session 9 next Tuesday
[16:31] jfw: especially considering as how homework 6 was apparently entirely bewildering once the questions ventured outside rote recall to demanding some actual thinking
[16:32] cruciform: yes, quite - sounds good
[16:32] jfw: cool, cya at 18:00 then.
[19:07] dorion: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-Dec-2020/#1090 -- ok, makes sense. we had it there originally because the proximate lessons were the gales linux build and install. those are now in advanced.
[19:07] sourcerer: 2020-12-15 15:33:32 (#jwrd) jfw: dorion: I'm thinking the daemontools and slashpackage material fits better in Intermediate or possibly Advanced. They're not as fundamental as the other stuff in beginner; they won't get used in practice much until later and thus will be easily forgotten; they'll be new to people otherwise versed in Unix who should be able to skip Beginner; and finally we've found there's quite enough material
Day changed to 2020-12-16
[20:18] jfw: billymg: replied.
[20:36] jfw: dorion: it's occurred to me that an important project for me this week in light of getting the machines prepared for cruciform would be doing a fresh Gales build addressing as many of the accumulated notes as I can get to in a reasonable timespan
[20:38] jfw: that might include moving towards a V genesis by inlining some of the smaller yet important tarball sources into the main repository and making the scripts work without requiring the execute bit
Day changed to 2020-12-17
[00:00] dorion: jfw, ok, makes sense.
[18:14] jfw: cruciform: do I hear the beads of sweat forming over there?
[18:15] cruciform: aye - I'm behind schedule :P (though should have it done before the clock strikes 12..)
[18:17] jfw: alright - well if you get it in by tonight I'll see to getting it checked on this cycle. Homework #8 is uploaded and is due Tuesday as per usual
[18:18] cruciform: great, thanks
Day changed to 2020-12-20
[17:40] billymg: jfw: left a reply
[23:00] dorion: hey dilynm, how goes ? did you get a start on that gales build ?
[23:01] dorion: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/jwrd-logs-for-nov-2020/#960
[23:01] sourcerer: 2020-11-30 20:34:39 (#jwrd) dilynm: Just looking at it, I'd think it falls somewhere in between. I'll probably have a go at it before the end of the year
Day changed to 2020-12-21
[01:05] dilynm: Was gonna give it a go this week
[01:06] dilynm: Got distracted by my own static adventure, hit a wall so I've been focusing on firefox sans Xorg for the last two weeks :S
[01:32] dorion: dilynm, nice, let us know how it goes.
[01:32] dorion: dilynm, where'd you hit a wall in your static adventure ?
[01:32] dilynm: Python/meson
[01:33] dilynm: Meson for some reason desperately wants me to have ctypes and I won't let it
[01:33] dorion: dilynm, what version of firefox are you basing that on ? and what're you using in place of Xorg ?
[01:34] dilynm: 83, Wayland
[01:34] dilynm: Hopefully 85 will be better
[01:35] dorion just last week installed v45 on gentoo.
[01:37] dorion: was the oldest one in my 2017 portage tree. after v52 or so it starts requiring pulseaudio, which I have masked because of... dbus or some other such tumor it depends on.
[01:37] dorion: dilynm, how long ya gonna hope for ?
[01:37] dilynm: Allegedly also support is just hidden behind a configure flag
[01:37] dorion: support for what now ?
[01:37] dilynm: I'm not hoping very much which is why I'm working on it myself instead of waiting; these bug reports have been pending since 2010 lmao
[01:38] dilynm: Alsa support*
[01:38] dorion: could be gentoo braindamage, sure. I didn't dig deep enough to find out.
[02:44] dorion: dilynm, if you're going to hang around here, please either a) get a better connection/run your client on a server or b) join and part cleanly when you want to speak and to otherwise keep up to date, read the logs on fixpoint. the join/part spam is a non zero cost.
[02:55] dilynm: Ooff. Sorry, thought I'd disconnected
[05:37] jfw: billymg: ack.
[05:41] jfw: dilynm, what do you find to be wrong about Xorg yet right about Wayland?
[05:42] jfw: and, have you mapped out that "firefox 85" dependency tree? I'd like to behold that wonder
[05:47] jfw: "Meson" - burn it!! we do not need yet another wannabe-automake, the original is barely justified as is.
[05:50] jfw: dorion: I'll be mildly curious to learn whether your v45 suffers from that "strict transport security" (HSTS) atrocity. if we manage to do a browser build, that's getting chopped for sure
[05:51] jfw: good call on pulseaudio, it's actually one of the earlier poetteringisms (literally). something of a test run for the systemd takeover, "if they're dumb enough to adopt this across the board then they'll eat anything"
[05:55] jfw: I'll note that audio, like gfx, is not as yet addressed in Gales. I did find "salsa-lib" as a promising contender for static linkable ALSA implementation.
[05:59] jfw: I should also note that if you want the 'audio experience the user has come to expect' on Linux i.e. unlimited sources with software mixing and acceptable latency at least in some cases, there isn't much choice but pulseaudio.
Day changed to 2020-12-22
[15:57] cruciform: jfw, I've emailed you homeworks 7 (for the record: tardily) and 8; the former I've also sent a revised version of, after spotting a syntax error
[15:58] jfw: cruciform: got them, thx.
Day changed to 2020-12-26
[13:43] dorion: in disk developments : https://www.ibm.com/blogs/research/2020/12/tape-density-record/
[21:49] jfw: so tape is set to maintain its potential as the storage tech that makes most effective use of all three spatial dimensions.
[21:52] jfw: hm, that's poorly worded but not sure how to better put it. It has that potential from a purely geometric standpoint, while it's apparently set to stay competitive on the basis of further realization of said potential.
[21:53] jfw: see how SSDs for instance have moved to some level of vertical stacking, but that's still within the confines of a fairly thin wafer.
[21:55] jfw: or more like stack of sheets, baklava style, but in an overall flat package.
[22:00] jfw: "when not in use, tape requires no energy unlike hard disks and flash." - that seems a stretch too far, when unqualified like that; nothing stopping anyone from keeping a cold library of hdds. What they perhaps meant is that there's not much tech for automating that at scale as there is for tape.
[22:04] jfw: "a technology more than 60 years old" - arguably way older, like Library of Alexandria older! The random-access block device interface presented by bookbinding is the more recent
[22:21] jfw: As per Medieval Tech Support (now rescued from youtube).
Day changed to 2020-12-29
[04:06] jfw: cruciform: my estimated date of departure for your package is Wednesday the 30th; I'll update here if this changes.
[14:03] cruciform: jfw, sounds good; merry Christmas and happy new year!
Day changed to 2020-12-30
[19:53] jfw: cruciform: merry new yearsmas to you too.
[19:58] jfw: cruciform: I'm getting down to the wire and it's not looking good for shipment today - might spill to tomorrow and then I'm not sure what the courier delays might look like given the holiday. You had to extend your lease and push back moveout already, right? Do you have an updated deadline for retrieving the shipment?
[20:02] jfw: The hardware is still looking fine but I ran into some technical debts / reminders of past ugliness that I couldn't stand anymore on the software side and fell into a bit of a hole working on that.
[20:07] jfw: A new Gales Linux release with much improved build process, assorted bugs fixed and feedback addressed will be coming out shortly.
[20:08] jfw: I apologize for the delays, cruciform.
[20:21] jfw: I'm also thinking to make public my Linux kernel .config. I've been reluctant for one thing because it's the result of navigating a maze of hundreds of intermittently documented configuration choices about which I claim no expertise; but then, it's at least working, is relatively minimal as Linux kernels go, and is most probably better than what someone without my experience could come up with on
[20:21] jfw: their own.
[20:25] jfw: For another thing, it's pretty specific to the particular hardware we're selling and thus I might like to imagine it a part of our value-add; but then, in reality information can't really be sold more than once, and having more sunlight on it would be so much the better for the value & thus saleability of our hardware, or at least so the "open source" theory goes.
[20:27] jfw: and for other hardware it would still make a much easier starting point than a "make defconfig" or "make allnoconfig" or the like.