Day changed to 2024-08-01
[01:43] sstacksyrc: oh great, so that will do for m /'>: e
[09:52] lru: is phuctor still operational anywhere?
[16:49] dorion: lru, I'm not aware of any public interface for it and highly doubt it's running.
[20:23] lru: dorion: thanks
Day changed to 2024-08-05
[23:55] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2024/toothy-problems-a-confession/#comment-2828 for latest in the home medical dramaz.
Day changed to 2024-08-06
[13:35] dorion: from the swamps : https://darkskippy.com ; while it depends on luser loading malicious firmware onto their signing device, looks like it exposes some weaknesses in the whole 'seed phrase' fastfood as well as the use of the schnorr signatures. the attack imbeds the seed phrase into the transaction so as to leak it.
[13:38] dorion: would like some help breaking it down and understanding it so I can turn what we learn into a pro-gbw article.
[15:39] jfw: dorion: I haven't really looked into schnorr signatures, they're not in the reference implementation. (iirc I first heard of them from antonopoulos' droolings, but even being tuned into him at the time, didn't get interested.)
[15:39] jfw: there's not much log discussion but there's at least http://trilema.com/2020/forum-logs-for-02-mar-2017/#2247223
[15:51] jfw: perhaps it's easier to covertly exfiltrate stuff via schnorr. but, it's likely possible to do so with ecdsa too. there's the classic repeated R-values from reuse of the ephemeral key (which for max confusion they've renamed 'secret nonce')
[15:52] jfw: which leaks the key iirc in 2 signatures. that itself would be visible, but apply similar blinding or whatnot
[15:53] jfw: as to the seed phrase, basically the fact that it's one key from which all others derive makes it more efficient to leak; if you had independent keys as in gbw, it would perhaps take more signatures to transmit them all.
[15:55] jfw: the main point though seems to be the malicious firmware, which all those "hardware wallets" are 100% vulnerable too, since as I understand the various goxes that make them can push firmware updates on demand.
[15:55] jfw: *vulnerable to.
[15:57] jfw: (and nobody builds from source from the start, etc.)
Day changed to 2024-08-08
[17:39] lru: I stumbled across fasm, a small, self-compiling x86 assembler written in assembler... now need to find a tiny C compiler written in assembler, and it should be possible to source-boot x86 from asm to C to gcc-4.7
[18:12] jfw: lru: there was tinycc but that's still not in assembly, iirc
[18:15] jfw: if you got that working, it would push the circularity problem back a ways indeed. though even with a hand-made or checked assembler binary, you'll still hit the needing at least a minimal kernel and userland to run it
[18:16] jfw: and then perhaps find that the world has meanwhile ran off to rust, repeating all the same sins
[18:19] jfw: lru: what do you think of the reproducibility approach? I've favored that as more practical. i.e., you follow the same process starting from multiple systems as diverse as can be managed and compare results
[18:22] jfw: true, you won't know for sure how diverse the starting systems really are, perhaps all inheriting ultimately from the same AT&T compiler binary or whatnot, but the chances of a compiler virus surviving that many revisions unaided seem pretty dim
[18:25] jfw: my own attempts hit a wall on this 'insn-automata' mega-file in the gcc build that was coming out nondeterministically, and thereafter I haven't turned up enough engaged players to make the game interesting
[19:01] lru: jfw: I tried the reproucibility approach with fasm on Debian Buster... I downloaded the source, which came with 32 and 64 bit binary fasm's provided... I used Debian's binary (based on libc) to build non-libc fasm from sources, and both 32 and 64 bit binaries matched the source tarball exactly.... that was rather satisfying :-)
[19:02] lru: I then tried using nasm, but the asm dialects were too different
[19:03] lru: did you figure out why it was non-deterministic? maybe some security related randomness in the binary?
Day changed to 2024-08-09
[00:28] jfw: lru: is it perhaps just at&t vs intel syntax? since nasm uses the latter. 'as' from gnu binutils uses the former.
[00:29] jfw: and how would it have a libc-based binary, does it do "call printf" or something? doesn't sound quite in the spirit of being all-assembly
[00:31] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2024/#12174 - nah, just ran out of time/appetite at the time, I'm sure it could be tracked down. just that gcc internals are so complex.
[00:31] sourcerer: 2024-08-08 19:03:10 (#jwrd) lru: did you figure out why it was non-deterministic? maybe some security related randomness in the binary?
[00:32] jfw: perhaps an implementation-dependent hash table producing an unspecified ordering of something
[00:45] cruciform: yo
[00:45] cruciform: @jfw s'up?
[00:47] cruciform: I'm having some trouble mounting sdb1 as the build user (need root permission); sudo command isn't found, and can't recall root password when using su command
[00:49] jfw: howdy cruciform
[00:49] cruciform: ello)
[00:49] jfw: can you log in as root straight, i.e. from the login prompt?
[00:50] cruciform: can I do that without closing the build environment?
[00:50] jfw: sure, use a second virtual terminal (alt-F*)
[00:50] jfw: i.e. alt-F1, alt-F2...
[00:51] cruciform: yup
[00:51] cruciform: I'm in as root now
[00:52] jfw: there you go. regarding su, the default gales setup doesn't allow privilege escalation (setuid-root), you can only drop privileges.
[00:52] cruciform: sweet - lemme try that backup...
[00:54] cruciform: on issuing # mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt/backup, I'm getting error message: can't mount as ext2/3 due to feature incompatibilities
[00:55] cruciform: having said that, /dev/sdb1 is now appearing via # df
[00:56] jfw: that's normal - if you don't explicitly specify the filesystem type, it tries to autodetect, and the ext4 code emits those warnings when trying to mount as ext2 or 3.
[00:56] jfw: so it failed as 2 and 3, then succeeded as 4.
[00:56] cruciform: aha, yes - now I recall
[00:58] jfw: definitely a good practice to look into such unexpected errors though.
[01:00] cruciform: as root, I can navigate to /var/build/gales, then issue # cp bzImage-* initramfs-install-$DATE.gz /mnt/ from there?
[01:00] cruciform: won't the #DATE variable not being initialised fuck it up?
[01:00] cruciform: *$DATE
[01:01] jfw: did you move on from working on the backup?
[01:01] cruciform: I thought that was the backup
[01:02] jfw: the idea is to save *your data* whatever that may be, and the rest of the system for good measure since that's most of what we've been working on
[01:02] jfw: so if you're working at the level of specific files, you're going too narrow.
[01:03] cruciform: aha, so I'm just copying sda1 to sdb1?
[01:03] jfw: well the contents thereof, yes.
[01:04] jfw: bzimage+initramfs sounds more like you're looking at instructions for creating a boot medium, which will be needed too but won't take much machine time.
[01:04] cruciform: yea, I'm doing step 9 of http://jfxpt.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/gales-BUILD.txt
[01:05] cruciform: IIRC there isn't documentation for doing the backup?
[01:06] jfw: critical thinking exercise :) but we've covered commands that would be useful like cp or tar
[01:06] cruciform: thinking, oh no!
[01:07] jfw: re $DATE, you're correct and there's the clarification in the text, "The process will need to be run as root; thus, the variables named below may no longer be defined outside the original build environment, but their meaning is the same as above.
[01:07] jfw: "
[01:07] cruciform: flipping a coin and issuing dd sda/b, brb
[01:07] jfw: lol
[01:08] cruciform: kk, lemme take a look
[01:08] jfw: (but again I'd focus on the backup for now.)
[01:09] cruciform: yea, need to get that churning before bed
[01:18] cruciform: say I'm using dd; am I backing up sda2, or sda? and copying to /dev/sdb1, or sdb? (# df lists /dev/sda2 and /dev/sdb1)
[01:19] cruciform: eg, If I merely copy sda2, am I missing the boot sector etc?
[01:23] jfw: ah, you weren't entirely joking. it is possible to do this with dd but wondering how you chose it?
[01:23] cruciform: it's 2:23AM and I've used it before :p
[01:24] cruciform: stackexchange has myriad better options, but that's gonna require some learnin'
[01:25] jfw: well, thing is that it's copying at the raw/block level, no filesystem awareness. which means it'll make a full exact copy, but will take the full size of the source drive regardless of how much is actually used, and moreover is unsafe to do on a mounted filesystem, because the data structures can change while it's in progress
[01:25] jfw: similar to why I say to stop a bitcoin node before copying its data directory.
[01:25] cruciform: yea
[01:26] jfw: once you have a bootable drive, you'd be able to do it. for now I guess you might be able to remount read-only, not sure if it'll trash your build environment setup though.
[01:26] cruciform: hmmm
[01:28] jfw: so how about something like: mkdir /mnt/backup/20240809 ; cd / ; ls ; cp -av [everything except the pseudo-filesystems mentioned to exclude] /mnt/backup/20240809/ ?
[01:30] cruciform: just cp everything from / to the backup, eh?
[01:30] cruciform: sounds simple enough
[01:31] jfw: exactly. KISS until having reason to add more
[01:31] cruciform: brb)
[01:33] jfw: but as far as dd-ing at drive vs partition level, it depends on what exactly you want; you could also dd from the full device into a specific file on the backup filesystem, which might be the best since then you could have multiple such files if the destination drive is big enough. if you dd from the partition, then indeed you won't get the boot sector, which includes the partition table. but you
[01:33] jfw: could recreate that and re-run lilo to install the bootloader afterwards.
[01:34] lru: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2024/#12175 both fasm and nasm use intel syntax, but I believe they have different directives... in any case, I got a big pile of errors when compiling with nasm... for example, fasm uses 'include' and nasm uses '%include'
[01:34] sourcerer: 2024-08-09 00:28:55 (#jwrd) jfw: lru: is it perhaps just at&t vs intel syntax? since nasm uses the latter. 'as' from gnu binutils uses the former.
[01:35] cruciform: ok, thanks for your help; backup is cp'ing away)
[01:35] cruciform: gn!
[01:35] jfw: lru: ah I see, pesky meta-directives/extensions.
[01:35] jfw: yw cruciform
[01:36] lru: as for libc vs non-libc, you're correct... the libc version compiles to an object file that expects libc symbols linked in, such as printf, etc... the non-libc version just calls the kernel directly for read/write, etc, which is all an assembler really needs to do
[01:44] jfw: looks like I last came across this http://flatassembler.net/ in 2019 by way of https://corexor.wordpress.com/2015/11/24/modern-dos-assembly-programming/
[01:50] jfw: I see, so it has ports to a number of systems, one of which makes direct linux syscalls and another calls libc to support other unixen.
[01:51] jfw: sounds not bad
[18:17] whaack: !e view-height
[18:17] btcexplorer: block_height: 856063
[18:17] btcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: -23
[18:17] whaack: !E view-height
[18:17] nzbtcexplorer: block_height: 856063
[18:17] nzbtcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 9
[18:17] whaack: looks like reconnect has been fixed 4realz
[18:20] whaack: jfw: how's the jaw? just saw your comment , yes getting second opinions is often frustrating because you get stuck in a standstill. half my doctors tell me to use my hands, the other half tell me not to, wtf.
[18:28] whaack: ty for your quick patch btw, idk when i'll update my code, i am just using the software with more caution/understanding now
[22:46] jfw: whaack: jaw's holding steady; pretty much normal when I wear the plastic and then wanders off into trouble when left to its own devices.
[22:48] jfw: and yes, such authority and consistency... one almost suspects them of being more like preists than anything
[22:51] jfw: I guess self-testing will have to do for the gbw-signer patch; dorion, perhaps you'd like to try it?
Day changed to 2024-08-10
[00:10] dorion: jfw, yes, will do.
Day changed to 2024-08-13
[17:48] cruciform: ello, got to installing libressl, and having some issues: having built it, there's no .tar.gz file to install
[17:50] cruciform: on root user, /var/build/gales-linux-24/gports/libressl only contains build, build.sh and libressl-2.5.4-entropy.patch
[18:04] jfw: cruciform: if the 'build' temp directory is still there it means something failed; do you find any relevant errors in the gbuild output?
[18:05] jfw: and the recording is up, btw.
Day changed to 2024-08-14
[01:59] jfw: cruciform: in light of my dental work tomorrow among other complications, let's go ahead and postpone the Friday session, resuming as usual next week.
[02:04] jfw: I may be without internet for some days too, but will check in here as I'm able.
[15:36] cruciform: @jfw no problem - all the best with the recovery!
Day changed to 2024-08-16
[13:29] cruciform: @jfw, how're the gnashers?
[13:45] jfw: well, I was writing an article so I wouldn't have to explain the same stuff to everyone, but I got too tired + tied up with necessities to finish it, what can I do!!
[13:45] jfw: anyways, more or less I'm alright.
[13:46] jfw: looks like I'll be losing network today though.
Day changed to 2024-08-17
[15:53] dorion: the context on the network is we were sharing a home office, but we decided to decentralize and I took the network with me. jfw will be back online sonner rather than later though.
Day changed to 2024-08-18
[21:07] jfw: checking in from a temporary perch to say all appears well with my recovery and it seems the dodgiest phase is well past. still just tired & laying low. I had a detailed article almost ready just before the network cut out; and in that regard I could be back as early as tomorrow.
Day changed to 2024-08-19
[16:55] jfw: home network is back. the optical fiber was a lie, it's some "hybrid fiber-coax" HFCS abortion but we'll see if it holds up better than the last guys' coax.
[17:02] jfw: "see this here box, it's my enterprise grade router that I can configure, I don't want your new blob of plastic doing anything besides translating the signal, like a modem" "ok sure." some time later... "here are your new wifi credentials" "wtf, I said I don't want any of that shit" "oh you wanted bridge mode!" "yes!" "we're not authorized to do that, the supervisor is needed" "but you're leaving,
[17:02] jfw: so he's going to call me back?" "you have to call support." so I log in to the router after finding the random password on its baseplate, put it in bridge mode fine myself, then find this still didn't disable its unauthorized wifi signals, so tried to log in again (it answers at 192.168.100.1 when in plain-modem mode), password was rejected and it locked out for 5 minutes, tried again, same
[17:02] jfw: password worked, disabled wifi. no doubt it'll still be eating $8/mo of electricity for no reason but c'est la vie.
[17:04] jfw: this provider hasn't advanced as far as the last one to actually lock the customer out of configuring his on-prem gateway box.
[22:36] cruciform: teeth-pulling apparently easier than magical speed-of-light telecommunication, eh?
[22:36] cruciform: @jfw so, we on for tomorrow?
Day changed to 2024-08-20
[01:49] jfw: at least with teeth-pulling the process and tools aren't changing every six months and always for the worse, I guess.
[01:49] jfw: cruciform: yep, on for tomorrow.
Day changed to 2024-08-22
[18:03] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2024/detoothing-debriefing/
[18:04] jfw: graphic mouth images omitted for now in the interests of getting the article out already, but perhaps I'll follow up with those.
[21:01] jfw: ahoy jwm/jwm1
Day changed to 2024-08-23
[01:16] jwm1: !
[01:16] jwm1: the Hexchat has come through once again
[01:17] jwm1: it appears i am logged on twice
[01:17] jwm1: let me fix this
[01:34] jfw: there you go. so how goes, you moved out of the las olas place right?
[01:37] jfw: sstacksyrc: have you guys been out water too today? any good gossip on what's to come? the network so far reports paitilla is back, el cangrejo still out, but more outages expected over the upcoming months as they're planning various maintenance/improvements. though today's was apparently unplanned.
[02:07] jfw: dorion: you think local news like this could be a way to help bootstrap the WoT? there's plenty of "people" sharing info in the shadows, whatsapp groups & twatter and such, but following them is such a pain due to the impoverished interfaces, noise-to-signal and lack of identities to even filter on
[02:09] jfw: perhaps we're the only ones who presently perceive this problem, the inmates of plato's cave not even knowing what sunlight is so as to know they lack it and all. but give them a taste and maybe at least some level up
[02:15] jwm: I am back in Connecticut - was time to head home for a few months. Either back to FL after the election or tbd
[02:16] jwm: Infrastructure failing in Panama?
[02:16] jfw: nothing too far out of the ordinary, so far, shameful as that is.
[02:17] jwm: there were massive floods in CT as well as a small tornado known as a "micro burst" that picked up a few planes at the local airport and rippped trees out of the ground near my condo
[02:17] jwm: I may come down for a few days in November time frame on my way to argentina hopefully
[02:18] jwm: you back to Maine any time soon? I actually may be heading to portland for a night next weekend
[02:19] lru: jfw: how would an beefed up WoT help with the scattered communication across things like WhatsApp?
[02:19] jfw: jwm: ah, yeah we had one of those micro-bursts in the back woods in Boothbay ME, 10+ years back, we ended up taking it all down on the domino effect theory, all same-age spruces
[02:20] lru: and is there a bot in here that I'm blind to that handles the WoT? :-)
[02:21] jfw: jwm: no current plans but I'm thinking about it now
[02:21] jfw: !w help
[02:21] wotbot: Available commands: hi, help, register, up, down, key, rate, unrate, rated
[02:24] jwm: let me know if you make it back - ill be here for a few months or so
[02:24] jwm: and now have my ol' trusty ubuntu tower
[02:24] jwm: so i can stay logged on
[02:25] jfw: jwm: nice. I could definitely see a drive down there or somewhere between
[02:26] lru: !w help key
[02:26] wotbot: Available commands: hi, help, register, up, down, key, rate, unrate, rated
[02:26] jwm: could meet in boston as well - about half way
[02:26] jfw: lru: are you wondering how a WoT helps communication generally or what the problems are with the partial implementations in more popular use, or what more specifically?
[02:27] jfw: lru: the help is a little basic atm but you can do for instance:
[02:27] jfw: !w key
[02:27] wotbot: jfw: usage error: give at least one name or key fingerprint to look up.
[02:27] jfw: !w key jfw
[02:27] wotbot: jfw has key 0CBC05941D03FD95C3A47654AE0DF306025594B3.
[02:29] jfw: I begin to wonder if I've started an unfortunate trend toward three-letter nicks for everyone
[02:31] jwm: How many of the active users are bots?
[02:31] jwm: im assuming both explorers, wotbot, and sourcerer?
[02:32] jfw: jwm: that's right. I wouldn't quite describe them as "active" though, they're well behaved and only speak when spoken to!
[02:36] jfw: jwm: any wagers on the us election? dorion if I gather rightly expects trump to lose because he repeats the same mistakes of surrounding himself with enemies
[02:37] jfw: and not standing up for friends
[02:38] lru: jfw: I know how the WoT helps, and I'm very well aware of the problems of a mutitude of different communication methods... what I'm unclear on is how the first would help reduce the plethora of the second
[02:39] jfw: hmm, I'd say the problem isn't so much the number of different methods as the lack of actual diversity there - without independent sources it's all just one big morass
[02:41] jwm: The WOT would only be as good as the people in it
[02:41] jfw: quite so
[02:41] jwm: i think the idea is that if you are verified by someone you trust you can put more credence in that persons opinion
[02:42] jwm: I tend to think Kamala is easier to push through regardless of how the votes go
[02:42] jfw: yes. it allows you to evaluate information in light of its source, even if you don't personally know them
[02:42] jwm: Trump v Biden was going to be too big to rig
[02:43] jfw: right, even the dems knew it was time to scuttle that boat.
[02:43] jwm: I am also leaning towards a Kamala victory unfortunately
[02:48] jwm: Dont think he has a bad team this time neccesarily but there are far too many enemies to keep them all at bay
[02:48] jwm: The wild card is israel
[02:49] jfw: ah, how so?
[02:49] jwm: Don just picked up a huge check from Sheldon Adelsons wife - not sure that money matters much but that war in particular has to be driving this election.
[02:50] jwm: if votes matter, kamala could lose michigan from the strength of the muslim vote in Detroit
[02:51] jfw: heh
[02:51] jfw: didn't anybody tell them they're below women in the ladder of oppression?
[02:51] jwm: if votes dont matter and its all fake then whoever gives the biggest check to the wars will probably be pushed in by the CIA
[02:51] lru: Trump recently said what America needs is more people, more immigrants, which seemed at odds with his base
[02:53] jwm: didnt hear that
[02:53] jwm: im all for more people, if we can get rid of the handouts
[02:53] jwm: unfortunately we are talking about more handouts
[02:53] jfw: jwm: like, whoever offers enough juice to the local contractors via the war machine?
[02:54] jwm: pretty much yea
[02:54] jfw: re immigrants it'd depend on the type of people, but handouts indeed pre-selects for the wrong kind
[02:54] jwm: To think the CIA fixes elections across the globe and the only one that they didnt bother to fix was ours is kind of crazy
[02:54] jwm: they created the ukraine crisis
[02:55] jfw: 'color revolution'
[02:56] jwm: if we make it hard enough to get here then the people that find their way illegally are probably going to be decent to have in the country
[02:56] jwm: takes some level of effort, resources and intelligence to make that trek
[02:57] lru: or make the hand out a piece of land.... here's 5 free acres... make it work
[02:57] jwm: problem is all these NGOs are making it easy now - just show up at the border and say your opressed in x country and afraid to return and your good
[02:57] jwm: 5 free acres, no mule
[02:57] jwm: but why do they get the acres
[02:57] jwm: i dont own 5 acres =(
[02:58] jfw: back when there were 5 free acres to hand out to anyone, they tended to come with indians and dysentery, if I recall my oregon trail.
[02:58] jwm: Whats Panamas govt like these days - after the whole copper mine debacle - thats the last thing i heard of big news
[02:59] jwm: Mexico just "elected" a jewish communist i saw
[02:59] jwm: so thats nice
[03:01] jfw: team martinelli is back in, though afaik the man himself is still holed up, not that easy to get his convictions overturned; and so far so good, sounds like they're putting in an honest effort to clean up house
[03:01] jfw: they built a wall and colombia's paying for it, metaphorically at least
[03:02] jfw: spending more on fixing up infrastructure; decided that they need to take a break from all the robbing if there's to be what to rob in the future
[03:03] jwm: I saw there was some effort to clean up the durian gap ?
[03:03] jwm: is that what you mean by that?
[03:03] jfw: yes, there was a large flow of transitory migrants
[03:03] jwm: darien gap*
[03:04] jwm: do they ever stay in Panama
[03:04] jwm: or are they shepherded north by HIAS
[03:04] jfw: unclear to me but I doubt many plan to stay here.
[03:05] jwm: fun fact, our head of DHS is a board member of HIAS
[03:05] jfw: not like it's that much better than colombia, and more expensive
[03:05] jwm: https://hias.org/statements/hias-congratulates-board-member-alejandro-mayorkas-dhs-nomination/
[03:06] jfw: well, definitely a lot of hebrews here, don't think they were the ones burning tires in the streets last october tho
[03:07] jwm: i only mention it because its one of the NGOs working in the gap
[03:07] jwm: helping get more people to the US
[03:07] jwm: meanwhile the guy thats supposed to be protecting our border is a board member
[03:07] jwm: lul
[03:07] jfw: I see
[03:10] jfw: so far the security conditions are still lots better here than CO from what I gather. homeless in the city are getting pretty noticeable though, who knows from where.
[03:14] jwm: Venezuela i would assume
[03:14] jfw: also they're not doing anything crazy like shutting down mining altogether like the enviro-leftists wanted
[03:14] jfw: and might be tackling the actual environmental problems i.e. waste management
[03:15] jfw: VZ - certainly could be
[03:20] jfw: thought I mentioned it here but not finding it - THAT election was a total, obvious fraud. so far it looked like the military was staying loyal to maduro, but it wouldn't be surprising to see that consensus break down, as bloodily as necessary
[03:22] jfw: they only bothered to come up with one decimal place in the desired vote tallies, and no data broken down by region or anything
[03:39] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2024/#12368 - documented
[03:39] sourcerer: 2024-08-23 03:03:40 (#jwrd) jfw: yes, there was a large flow of transitory migrants
[03:53] jfw: water's back here (rather fitfully at first).
[13:19] jwm: thx for sharing the Darien article JFW, i will check it out.
[13:20] jwm: there were two recent podcasts that highlighted the issues there
[13:20] jwm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOxksFHAHRU
[13:20] jwm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkC1BYzK4NA
[13:21] jwm: Brett Weinstein with Tucker and Jordan Peterson, not sure which one is better - probably a slightly different flavor with the same basic content.
Day changed to 2024-08-24
[00:23] jfw: jwm: there transcripts for either of those? I can't read youtube, much less preserve or search its content
[16:21] jwm: https://tuckercarlson.com/the-tucker-carlson-encounter-bret-weinstein-at-the-darien-gap
[16:21] jwm: looks like the transcript is behind a paywall
[23:48] jfw: sucks; even the basic page doesn't load for me. such independent web journalism, got his own domain name and all but then went to hide behind mommy cloudflare
[23:57] jfw: thanks for linking anyway, I don't mean to be rude; just spoiled by the TMSR days I guess. like once you've tasted real food you can never really go back to eating processed cardboard at the kiddy table
[23:59] jfw: even should you find yourself with nothing else around
Day changed to 2024-08-25
[01:52] jwm: yea i doubt Tucker is catering to the linux only user unfortunately - just spin up an ubuntu =) - the most robust of linuxes
[01:52] jwm: I even have a stock background image of a hippo...
[02:35] jfw: is it a huge and hungry hippo?
[02:38] jfw: I don't think it's really to do with linux so much as browser "out of date", you're not going with the herd so you must be a wolf-bot
Day changed to 2024-08-27
[15:01] cruciform: @jfw running 10 mins late
Day changed to 2024-08-29
[16:54] dorion: 3
[16:54] dorion: kvm
[19:37] sstacksyrc: HJU32CD'/;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;C XXXXXXXXBA`````````````````
[20:53] jfw: sounds like a full four-paw strike
[01:43] sstacksyrc: oh great, so that will do for m /'>: e
[09:52] lru: is phuctor still operational anywhere?
[16:49] dorion: lru, I'm not aware of any public interface for it and highly doubt it's running.
[20:23] lru: dorion: thanks
Day changed to 2024-08-05
[23:55] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2024/toothy-problems-a-confession/#comment-2828 for latest in the home medical dramaz.
Day changed to 2024-08-06
[13:35] dorion: from the swamps : https://darkskippy.com ; while it depends on luser loading malicious firmware onto their signing device, looks like it exposes some weaknesses in the whole 'seed phrase' fastfood as well as the use of the schnorr signatures. the attack imbeds the seed phrase into the transaction so as to leak it.
[13:38] dorion: would like some help breaking it down and understanding it so I can turn what we learn into a pro-gbw article.
[15:39] jfw: dorion: I haven't really looked into schnorr signatures, they're not in the reference implementation. (iirc I first heard of them from antonopoulos' droolings, but even being tuned into him at the time, didn't get interested.)
[15:39] jfw: there's not much log discussion but there's at least http://trilema.com/2020/forum-logs-for-02-mar-2017/#2247223
[15:51] jfw: perhaps it's easier to covertly exfiltrate stuff via schnorr. but, it's likely possible to do so with ecdsa too. there's the classic repeated R-values from reuse of the ephemeral key (which for max confusion they've renamed 'secret nonce')
[15:52] jfw: which leaks the key iirc in 2 signatures. that itself would be visible, but apply similar blinding or whatnot
[15:53] jfw: as to the seed phrase, basically the fact that it's one key from which all others derive makes it more efficient to leak; if you had independent keys as in gbw, it would perhaps take more signatures to transmit them all.
[15:55] jfw: the main point though seems to be the malicious firmware, which all those "hardware wallets" are 100% vulnerable too, since as I understand the various goxes that make them can push firmware updates on demand.
[15:55] jfw: *vulnerable to.
[15:57] jfw: (and nobody builds from source from the start, etc.)
Day changed to 2024-08-08
[17:39] lru: I stumbled across fasm, a small, self-compiling x86 assembler written in assembler... now need to find a tiny C compiler written in assembler, and it should be possible to source-boot x86 from asm to C to gcc-4.7
[18:12] jfw: lru: there was tinycc but that's still not in assembly, iirc
[18:15] jfw: if you got that working, it would push the circularity problem back a ways indeed. though even with a hand-made or checked assembler binary, you'll still hit the needing at least a minimal kernel and userland to run it
[18:16] jfw: and then perhaps find that the world has meanwhile ran off to rust, repeating all the same sins
[18:19] jfw: lru: what do you think of the reproducibility approach? I've favored that as more practical. i.e., you follow the same process starting from multiple systems as diverse as can be managed and compare results
[18:22] jfw: true, you won't know for sure how diverse the starting systems really are, perhaps all inheriting ultimately from the same AT&T compiler binary or whatnot, but the chances of a compiler virus surviving that many revisions unaided seem pretty dim
[18:25] jfw: my own attempts hit a wall on this 'insn-automata' mega-file in the gcc build that was coming out nondeterministically, and thereafter I haven't turned up enough engaged players to make the game interesting
[19:01] lru: jfw: I tried the reproucibility approach with fasm on Debian Buster... I downloaded the source, which came with 32 and 64 bit binary fasm's provided... I used Debian's binary (based on libc) to build non-libc fasm from sources, and both 32 and 64 bit binaries matched the source tarball exactly.... that was rather satisfying :-)
[19:02] lru: I then tried using nasm, but the asm dialects were too different
[19:03] lru: did you figure out why it was non-deterministic? maybe some security related randomness in the binary?
Day changed to 2024-08-09
[00:28] jfw: lru: is it perhaps just at&t vs intel syntax? since nasm uses the latter. 'as' from gnu binutils uses the former.
[00:29] jfw: and how would it have a libc-based binary, does it do "call printf" or something? doesn't sound quite in the spirit of being all-assembly
[00:31] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2024/#12174 - nah, just ran out of time/appetite at the time, I'm sure it could be tracked down. just that gcc internals are so complex.
[00:31] sourcerer: 2024-08-08 19:03:10 (#jwrd) lru: did you figure out why it was non-deterministic? maybe some security related randomness in the binary?
[00:32] jfw: perhaps an implementation-dependent hash table producing an unspecified ordering of something
[00:45] cruciform: yo
[00:45] cruciform: @jfw s'up?
[00:47] cruciform: I'm having some trouble mounting sdb1 as the build user (need root permission); sudo command isn't found, and can't recall root password when using su command
[00:49] jfw: howdy cruciform
[00:49] cruciform: ello)
[00:49] jfw: can you log in as root straight, i.e. from the login prompt?
[00:50] cruciform: can I do that without closing the build environment?
[00:50] jfw: sure, use a second virtual terminal (alt-F*)
[00:50] jfw: i.e. alt-F1, alt-F2...
[00:51] cruciform: yup
[00:51] cruciform: I'm in as root now
[00:52] jfw: there you go. regarding su, the default gales setup doesn't allow privilege escalation (setuid-root), you can only drop privileges.
[00:52] cruciform: sweet - lemme try that backup...
[00:54] cruciform: on issuing # mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt/backup, I'm getting error message: can't mount as ext2/3 due to feature incompatibilities
[00:55] cruciform: having said that, /dev/sdb1 is now appearing via # df
[00:56] jfw: that's normal - if you don't explicitly specify the filesystem type, it tries to autodetect, and the ext4 code emits those warnings when trying to mount as ext2 or 3.
[00:56] jfw: so it failed as 2 and 3, then succeeded as 4.
[00:56] cruciform: aha, yes - now I recall
[00:58] jfw: definitely a good practice to look into such unexpected errors though.
[01:00] cruciform: as root, I can navigate to /var/build/gales, then issue # cp bzImage-* initramfs-install-$DATE.gz /mnt/ from there?
[01:00] cruciform: won't the #DATE variable not being initialised fuck it up?
[01:00] cruciform: *$DATE
[01:01] jfw: did you move on from working on the backup?
[01:01] cruciform: I thought that was the backup
[01:02] jfw: the idea is to save *your data* whatever that may be, and the rest of the system for good measure since that's most of what we've been working on
[01:02] jfw: so if you're working at the level of specific files, you're going too narrow.
[01:03] cruciform: aha, so I'm just copying sda1 to sdb1?
[01:03] jfw: well the contents thereof, yes.
[01:04] jfw: bzimage+initramfs sounds more like you're looking at instructions for creating a boot medium, which will be needed too but won't take much machine time.
[01:04] cruciform: yea, I'm doing step 9 of http://jfxpt.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/gales-BUILD.txt
[01:05] cruciform: IIRC there isn't documentation for doing the backup?
[01:06] jfw: critical thinking exercise :) but we've covered commands that would be useful like cp or tar
[01:06] cruciform: thinking, oh no!
[01:07] jfw: re $DATE, you're correct and there's the clarification in the text, "The process will need to be run as root; thus, the variables named below may no longer be defined outside the original build environment, but their meaning is the same as above.
[01:07] jfw: "
[01:07] cruciform: flipping a coin and issuing dd sda/b, brb
[01:07] jfw: lol
[01:08] cruciform: kk, lemme take a look
[01:08] jfw: (but again I'd focus on the backup for now.)
[01:09] cruciform: yea, need to get that churning before bed
[01:18] cruciform: say I'm using dd; am I backing up sda2, or sda? and copying to /dev/sdb1, or sdb? (# df lists /dev/sda2 and /dev/sdb1)
[01:19] cruciform: eg, If I merely copy sda2, am I missing the boot sector etc?
[01:23] jfw: ah, you weren't entirely joking. it is possible to do this with dd but wondering how you chose it?
[01:23] cruciform: it's 2:23AM and I've used it before :p
[01:24] cruciform: stackexchange has myriad better options, but that's gonna require some learnin'
[01:25] jfw: well, thing is that it's copying at the raw/block level, no filesystem awareness. which means it'll make a full exact copy, but will take the full size of the source drive regardless of how much is actually used, and moreover is unsafe to do on a mounted filesystem, because the data structures can change while it's in progress
[01:25] jfw: similar to why I say to stop a bitcoin node before copying its data directory.
[01:25] cruciform: yea
[01:26] jfw: once you have a bootable drive, you'd be able to do it. for now I guess you might be able to remount read-only, not sure if it'll trash your build environment setup though.
[01:26] cruciform: hmmm
[01:28] jfw: so how about something like: mkdir /mnt/backup/20240809 ; cd / ; ls ; cp -av [everything except the pseudo-filesystems mentioned to exclude] /mnt/backup/20240809/ ?
[01:30] cruciform: just cp everything from / to the backup, eh?
[01:30] cruciform: sounds simple enough
[01:31] jfw: exactly. KISS until having reason to add more
[01:31] cruciform: brb)
[01:33] jfw: but as far as dd-ing at drive vs partition level, it depends on what exactly you want; you could also dd from the full device into a specific file on the backup filesystem, which might be the best since then you could have multiple such files if the destination drive is big enough. if you dd from the partition, then indeed you won't get the boot sector, which includes the partition table. but you
[01:33] jfw: could recreate that and re-run lilo to install the bootloader afterwards.
[01:34] lru: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2024/#12175 both fasm and nasm use intel syntax, but I believe they have different directives... in any case, I got a big pile of errors when compiling with nasm... for example, fasm uses 'include' and nasm uses '%include'
[01:34] sourcerer: 2024-08-09 00:28:55 (#jwrd) jfw: lru: is it perhaps just at&t vs intel syntax? since nasm uses the latter. 'as' from gnu binutils uses the former.
[01:35] cruciform: ok, thanks for your help; backup is cp'ing away)
[01:35] cruciform: gn!
[01:35] jfw: lru: ah I see, pesky meta-directives/extensions.
[01:35] jfw: yw cruciform
[01:36] lru: as for libc vs non-libc, you're correct... the libc version compiles to an object file that expects libc symbols linked in, such as printf, etc... the non-libc version just calls the kernel directly for read/write, etc, which is all an assembler really needs to do
[01:44] jfw: looks like I last came across this http://flatassembler.net/ in 2019 by way of https://corexor.wordpress.com/2015/11/24/modern-dos-assembly-programming/
[01:50] jfw: I see, so it has ports to a number of systems, one of which makes direct linux syscalls and another calls libc to support other unixen.
[01:51] jfw: sounds not bad
[18:17] whaack: !e view-height
[18:17] btcexplorer: block_height: 856063
[18:17] btcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: -23
[18:17] whaack: !E view-height
[18:17] nzbtcexplorer: block_height: 856063
[18:17] nzbtcexplorer: mins_since_last_block: 9
[18:17] whaack: looks like reconnect has been fixed 4realz
[18:20] whaack: jfw: how's the jaw? just saw your comment , yes getting second opinions is often frustrating because you get stuck in a standstill. half my doctors tell me to use my hands, the other half tell me not to, wtf.
[18:28] whaack: ty for your quick patch btw, idk when i'll update my code, i am just using the software with more caution/understanding now
[22:46] jfw: whaack: jaw's holding steady; pretty much normal when I wear the plastic and then wanders off into trouble when left to its own devices.
[22:48] jfw: and yes, such authority and consistency... one almost suspects them of being more like preists than anything
[22:51] jfw: I guess self-testing will have to do for the gbw-signer patch; dorion, perhaps you'd like to try it?
Day changed to 2024-08-10
[00:10] dorion: jfw, yes, will do.
Day changed to 2024-08-13
[17:48] cruciform: ello, got to installing libressl, and having some issues: having built it, there's no .tar.gz file to install
[17:50] cruciform: on root user, /var/build/gales-linux-24/gports/libressl only contains build, build.sh and libressl-2.5.4-entropy.patch
[18:04] jfw: cruciform: if the 'build' temp directory is still there it means something failed; do you find any relevant errors in the gbuild output?
[18:05] jfw: and the recording is up, btw.
Day changed to 2024-08-14
[01:59] jfw: cruciform: in light of my dental work tomorrow among other complications, let's go ahead and postpone the Friday session, resuming as usual next week.
[02:04] jfw: I may be without internet for some days too, but will check in here as I'm able.
[15:36] cruciform: @jfw no problem - all the best with the recovery!
Day changed to 2024-08-16
[13:29] cruciform: @jfw, how're the gnashers?
[13:45] jfw: well, I was writing an article so I wouldn't have to explain the same stuff to everyone, but I got too tired + tied up with necessities to finish it, what can I do!!
[13:45] jfw: anyways, more or less I'm alright.
[13:46] jfw: looks like I'll be losing network today though.
Day changed to 2024-08-17
[15:53] dorion: the context on the network is we were sharing a home office, but we decided to decentralize and I took the network with me. jfw will be back online sonner rather than later though.
Day changed to 2024-08-18
[21:07] jfw: checking in from a temporary perch to say all appears well with my recovery and it seems the dodgiest phase is well past. still just tired & laying low. I had a detailed article almost ready just before the network cut out; and in that regard I could be back as early as tomorrow.
Day changed to 2024-08-19
[16:55] jfw: home network is back. the optical fiber was a lie, it's some "hybrid fiber-coax" HFCS abortion but we'll see if it holds up better than the last guys' coax.
[17:02] jfw: "see this here box, it's my enterprise grade router that I can configure, I don't want your new blob of plastic doing anything besides translating the signal, like a modem" "ok sure." some time later... "here are your new wifi credentials" "wtf, I said I don't want any of that shit" "oh you wanted bridge mode!" "yes!" "we're not authorized to do that, the supervisor is needed" "but you're leaving,
[17:02] jfw: so he's going to call me back?" "you have to call support." so I log in to the router after finding the random password on its baseplate, put it in bridge mode fine myself, then find this still didn't disable its unauthorized wifi signals, so tried to log in again (it answers at 192.168.100.1 when in plain-modem mode), password was rejected and it locked out for 5 minutes, tried again, same
[17:02] jfw: password worked, disabled wifi. no doubt it'll still be eating $8/mo of electricity for no reason but c'est la vie.
[17:04] jfw: this provider hasn't advanced as far as the last one to actually lock the customer out of configuring his on-prem gateway box.
[22:36] cruciform: teeth-pulling apparently easier than magical speed-of-light telecommunication, eh?
[22:36] cruciform: @jfw so, we on for tomorrow?
Day changed to 2024-08-20
[01:49] jfw: at least with teeth-pulling the process and tools aren't changing every six months and always for the worse, I guess.
[01:49] jfw: cruciform: yep, on for tomorrow.
Day changed to 2024-08-22
[18:03] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2024/detoothing-debriefing/
[18:04] jfw: graphic mouth images omitted for now in the interests of getting the article out already, but perhaps I'll follow up with those.
[21:01] jfw: ahoy jwm/jwm1
Day changed to 2024-08-23
[01:16] jwm1: !
[01:16] jwm1: the Hexchat has come through once again
[01:17] jwm1: it appears i am logged on twice
[01:17] jwm1: let me fix this
[01:34] jfw: there you go. so how goes, you moved out of the las olas place right?
[01:37] jfw: sstacksyrc: have you guys been out water too today? any good gossip on what's to come? the network so far reports paitilla is back, el cangrejo still out, but more outages expected over the upcoming months as they're planning various maintenance/improvements. though today's was apparently unplanned.
[02:07] jfw: dorion: you think local news like this could be a way to help bootstrap the WoT? there's plenty of "people" sharing info in the shadows, whatsapp groups & twatter and such, but following them is such a pain due to the impoverished interfaces, noise-to-signal and lack of identities to even filter on
[02:09] jfw: perhaps we're the only ones who presently perceive this problem, the inmates of plato's cave not even knowing what sunlight is so as to know they lack it and all. but give them a taste and maybe at least some level up
[02:15] jwm: I am back in Connecticut - was time to head home for a few months. Either back to FL after the election or tbd
[02:16] jwm: Infrastructure failing in Panama?
[02:16] jfw: nothing too far out of the ordinary, so far, shameful as that is.
[02:17] jwm: there were massive floods in CT as well as a small tornado known as a "micro burst" that picked up a few planes at the local airport and rippped trees out of the ground near my condo
[02:17] jwm: I may come down for a few days in November time frame on my way to argentina hopefully
[02:18] jwm: you back to Maine any time soon? I actually may be heading to portland for a night next weekend
[02:19] lru: jfw: how would an beefed up WoT help with the scattered communication across things like WhatsApp?
[02:19] jfw: jwm: ah, yeah we had one of those micro-bursts in the back woods in Boothbay ME, 10+ years back, we ended up taking it all down on the domino effect theory, all same-age spruces
[02:20] lru: and is there a bot in here that I'm blind to that handles the WoT? :-)
[02:21] jfw: jwm: no current plans but I'm thinking about it now
[02:21] jfw: !w help
[02:21] wotbot: Available commands: hi, help, register, up, down, key, rate, unrate, rated
[02:24] jwm: let me know if you make it back - ill be here for a few months or so
[02:24] jwm: and now have my ol' trusty ubuntu tower
[02:24] jwm: so i can stay logged on
[02:25] jfw: jwm: nice. I could definitely see a drive down there or somewhere between
[02:26] lru: !w help key
[02:26] wotbot: Available commands: hi, help, register, up, down, key, rate, unrate, rated
[02:26] jwm: could meet in boston as well - about half way
[02:26] jfw: lru: are you wondering how a WoT helps communication generally or what the problems are with the partial implementations in more popular use, or what more specifically?
[02:27] jfw: lru: the help is a little basic atm but you can do for instance:
[02:27] jfw: !w key
[02:27] wotbot: jfw: usage error: give at least one name or key fingerprint to look up.
[02:27] jfw: !w key jfw
[02:27] wotbot: jfw has key 0CBC05941D03FD95C3A47654AE0DF306025594B3.
[02:29] jfw: I begin to wonder if I've started an unfortunate trend toward three-letter nicks for everyone
[02:31] jwm: How many of the active users are bots?
[02:31] jwm: im assuming both explorers, wotbot, and sourcerer?
[02:32] jfw: jwm: that's right. I wouldn't quite describe them as "active" though, they're well behaved and only speak when spoken to!
[02:36] jfw: jwm: any wagers on the us election? dorion if I gather rightly expects trump to lose because he repeats the same mistakes of surrounding himself with enemies
[02:37] jfw: and not standing up for friends
[02:38] lru: jfw: I know how the WoT helps, and I'm very well aware of the problems of a mutitude of different communication methods... what I'm unclear on is how the first would help reduce the plethora of the second
[02:39] jfw: hmm, I'd say the problem isn't so much the number of different methods as the lack of actual diversity there - without independent sources it's all just one big morass
[02:41] jwm: The WOT would only be as good as the people in it
[02:41] jfw: quite so
[02:41] jwm: i think the idea is that if you are verified by someone you trust you can put more credence in that persons opinion
[02:42] jwm: I tend to think Kamala is easier to push through regardless of how the votes go
[02:42] jfw: yes. it allows you to evaluate information in light of its source, even if you don't personally know them
[02:42] jwm: Trump v Biden was going to be too big to rig
[02:43] jfw: right, even the dems knew it was time to scuttle that boat.
[02:43] jwm: I am also leaning towards a Kamala victory unfortunately
[02:48] jwm: Dont think he has a bad team this time neccesarily but there are far too many enemies to keep them all at bay
[02:48] jwm: The wild card is israel
[02:49] jfw: ah, how so?
[02:49] jwm: Don just picked up a huge check from Sheldon Adelsons wife - not sure that money matters much but that war in particular has to be driving this election.
[02:50] jwm: if votes matter, kamala could lose michigan from the strength of the muslim vote in Detroit
[02:51] jfw: heh
[02:51] jfw: didn't anybody tell them they're below women in the ladder of oppression?
[02:51] jwm: if votes dont matter and its all fake then whoever gives the biggest check to the wars will probably be pushed in by the CIA
[02:51] lru: Trump recently said what America needs is more people, more immigrants, which seemed at odds with his base
[02:53] jwm: didnt hear that
[02:53] jwm: im all for more people, if we can get rid of the handouts
[02:53] jwm: unfortunately we are talking about more handouts
[02:53] jfw: jwm: like, whoever offers enough juice to the local contractors via the war machine?
[02:54] jwm: pretty much yea
[02:54] jfw: re immigrants it'd depend on the type of people, but handouts indeed pre-selects for the wrong kind
[02:54] jwm: To think the CIA fixes elections across the globe and the only one that they didnt bother to fix was ours is kind of crazy
[02:54] jwm: they created the ukraine crisis
[02:55] jfw: 'color revolution'
[02:56] jwm: if we make it hard enough to get here then the people that find their way illegally are probably going to be decent to have in the country
[02:56] jwm: takes some level of effort, resources and intelligence to make that trek
[02:57] lru: or make the hand out a piece of land.... here's 5 free acres... make it work
[02:57] jwm: problem is all these NGOs are making it easy now - just show up at the border and say your opressed in x country and afraid to return and your good
[02:57] jwm: 5 free acres, no mule
[02:57] jwm: but why do they get the acres
[02:57] jwm: i dont own 5 acres =(
[02:58] jfw: back when there were 5 free acres to hand out to anyone, they tended to come with indians and dysentery, if I recall my oregon trail.
[02:58] jwm: Whats Panamas govt like these days - after the whole copper mine debacle - thats the last thing i heard of big news
[02:59] jwm: Mexico just "elected" a jewish communist i saw
[02:59] jwm: so thats nice
[03:01] jfw: team martinelli is back in, though afaik the man himself is still holed up, not that easy to get his convictions overturned; and so far so good, sounds like they're putting in an honest effort to clean up house
[03:01] jfw: they built a wall and colombia's paying for it, metaphorically at least
[03:02] jfw: spending more on fixing up infrastructure; decided that they need to take a break from all the robbing if there's to be what to rob in the future
[03:03] jwm: I saw there was some effort to clean up the durian gap ?
[03:03] jwm: is that what you mean by that?
[03:03] jfw: yes, there was a large flow of transitory migrants
[03:03] jwm: darien gap*
[03:04] jwm: do they ever stay in Panama
[03:04] jwm: or are they shepherded north by HIAS
[03:04] jfw: unclear to me but I doubt many plan to stay here.
[03:05] jwm: fun fact, our head of DHS is a board member of HIAS
[03:05] jfw: not like it's that much better than colombia, and more expensive
[03:05] jwm: https://hias.org/statements/hias-congratulates-board-member-alejandro-mayorkas-dhs-nomination/
[03:06] jfw: well, definitely a lot of hebrews here, don't think they were the ones burning tires in the streets last october tho
[03:07] jwm: i only mention it because its one of the NGOs working in the gap
[03:07] jwm: helping get more people to the US
[03:07] jwm: meanwhile the guy thats supposed to be protecting our border is a board member
[03:07] jwm: lul
[03:07] jfw: I see
[03:10] jfw: so far the security conditions are still lots better here than CO from what I gather. homeless in the city are getting pretty noticeable though, who knows from where.
[03:14] jwm: Venezuela i would assume
[03:14] jfw: also they're not doing anything crazy like shutting down mining altogether like the enviro-leftists wanted
[03:14] jfw: and might be tackling the actual environmental problems i.e. waste management
[03:15] jfw: VZ - certainly could be
[03:20] jfw: thought I mentioned it here but not finding it - THAT election was a total, obvious fraud. so far it looked like the military was staying loyal to maduro, but it wouldn't be surprising to see that consensus break down, as bloodily as necessary
[03:22] jfw: they only bothered to come up with one decimal place in the desired vote tallies, and no data broken down by region or anything
[03:39] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Aug-2024/#12368 - documented
[03:39] sourcerer: 2024-08-23 03:03:40 (#jwrd) jfw: yes, there was a large flow of transitory migrants
[03:53] jfw: water's back here (rather fitfully at first).
[13:19] jwm: thx for sharing the Darien article JFW, i will check it out.
[13:20] jwm: there were two recent podcasts that highlighted the issues there
[13:20] jwm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOxksFHAHRU
[13:20] jwm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkC1BYzK4NA
[13:21] jwm: Brett Weinstein with Tucker and Jordan Peterson, not sure which one is better - probably a slightly different flavor with the same basic content.
Day changed to 2024-08-24
[00:23] jfw: jwm: there transcripts for either of those? I can't read youtube, much less preserve or search its content
[16:21] jwm: https://tuckercarlson.com/the-tucker-carlson-encounter-bret-weinstein-at-the-darien-gap
[16:21] jwm: looks like the transcript is behind a paywall
[23:48] jfw: sucks; even the basic page doesn't load for me. such independent web journalism, got his own domain name and all but then went to hide behind mommy cloudflare
[23:57] jfw: thanks for linking anyway, I don't mean to be rude; just spoiled by the TMSR days I guess. like once you've tasted real food you can never really go back to eating processed cardboard at the kiddy table
[23:59] jfw: even should you find yourself with nothing else around
Day changed to 2024-08-25
[01:52] jwm: yea i doubt Tucker is catering to the linux only user unfortunately - just spin up an ubuntu =) - the most robust of linuxes
[01:52] jwm: I even have a stock background image of a hippo...
[02:35] jfw: is it a huge and hungry hippo?
[02:38] jfw: I don't think it's really to do with linux so much as browser "out of date", you're not going with the herd so you must be a wolf-bot
Day changed to 2024-08-27
[15:01] cruciform: @jfw running 10 mins late
Day changed to 2024-08-29
[16:54] dorion: 3
[16:54] dorion: kvm
[19:37] sstacksyrc: HJU32CD'/;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;C XXXXXXXXBA`````````````````
[20:53] jfw: sounds like a full four-paw strike