Day changed to 2024-04-02
[01:15] jfw: this weird warning came up again, namely "Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix>" on python startup. it's searching for a lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/ directory, not because it needs it but just as a "landmark" for reassurance that it found its proper exec_prefix for later loading dynamic shared libraries.
[01:15] sourcerer: 2022-05-02 19:21:12 (#jwrd) jfw: the exec_prefix/PYTHONHOME thing looks like a red herring - I don't expect there are any "platform dependent libraries" to load since it's a static build, perhaps it's a python or packaging bug - but the real problem is simply the "No module named pip". It's not installed!
[01:18] jfw: why does a static build have anything to do with shared libs? because while the build system does support all-static linking, it's been decaying and they don't bother with fully disabling the dll stuff.
[01:19] jfw: why does the problem only come up now? because the python packages I'm building now don't include that empty lib-dynload dir, while the one I built years ago did.
[01:22] jfw: why this difference, when there were no changes to the gport in this interval? because of a deranged Makefile rule that names a target as $(DESTSHARED) which expands to *a full path in the final installed location*, not relative to the build tree or $(DESTDIR) where it's supposed to be creating stuff.
[01:23] jfw: ergo, if you don't have python installed on the box, the rule executes and creates the required lib-dynload under DESTDIR and it ends up in the package
[01:25] jfw: while if you already have python installed, "make" sees that the supposedly desired file exists, and so doesn't run the code to create it.
[01:27] jfw: so if you then meanwhile remove /gales/pkg/python* and reinstall from the binary package, or perhaps copy the binary package to a fresh machine to accelerate installation, you're left without the dir and you get the warning.
[01:30] jfw: can't tell why they did it like that, either. it's basic "how NOT to write a Makefile".
[01:34] jfw: the name of the target == the file created by the recipe == the indication of success. or else it's a 'phony' rule like 'clean' or 'install' that doesn't fit that pattern (creating a specific file) and is meant to always run when invoked, in which case you either list it explicitly as phony or else make sure it doesn't conflict with actual file names in your tree.
[01:36] jfw: make works great, when used properly. it ain't rocket science. yeesh.
[02:38] jfw: dorion: I've fixed that in the gport as well as the standard 'multiprocessing' module which failed to load due to missing its C parts in _multiprocessing (iirc that came up some years ago when I was trying to do fancier python stuff; I never meant it to be left out but it simply wasn't listed in their example of how to build the necessary modules statically)
[02:39] jfw: confusing grammar: I've fixed that in the gport, as well as fixing the standard...
[02:43] jfw: the exec_prefix workaround for affected systems is simply: mkdir /gales/pkg/python/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload ; and I believe I've done that on all such affected.
Day changed to 2024-04-03
[15:39] whaack: greetings from upstate ny
[15:40] whaack: ive had a great time in nyc, i'm considering going back to roots and spending 6months here or such
[15:51] dorion: hey whaack.
[15:51] dorion: what part of upstate ?
[15:51] whaack: fort plains
[15:52] whaack: small town where my dad lives
[15:52] whaack: but if i wer eto live here it would be in nyc itself
[15:52] whaack: or jersey city
[15:54] dorion: what have you liked about it ?
[15:58] dorion: after being hit w/ highest power bill on record last month after no obvious change in usage and then linked to an article on the looming energy crisis I've been reading about relocation destinations myself this morning, paraguay in particular.
[16:07] whaack: it's the night life / chicks that draw me in. lots and lots of good bars/clubs/restaurants to go out to. seems a way better place to meet ppl than other spots i've been to. main problem is the $$, it's quite expensive here.
[16:07] dorion: why ? 1) easy immigration w/ tax free living, 2) abundant energy, 3) relatively strong agriculture, 4) temperate weather. it's not going to be the most exciting place to live and I'd not be too keen to be there much more than 6months/year, but I don't think I need too too much external stimulus and if/when desired, can travel for it.
[16:08] whaack: interesting. i'd be happy to check out that place as well.
[16:09] whaack: and ofc. nyc is home for me so i have friends/family here as well
[16:09] dorion: definitely nice scenery in nyc, but how have they been to talk to ? I suppose one benefit of nyc is lots of foreigners who perhaps aren't new yorktarded yet.
[16:10] whaack: i have to go out more still to judge. but anything is better than dealing with hippies talking about crystals and astrology (like ive found in CR)
[16:10] dorion: lol.
[16:12] dorion: how's your schedule shaping up for cdmx ? I'm thinking now first coupla weeks in may would be better for me. avoid elections in panama.
[16:14] dorion: my biggest reservations about cdmx as a base are 1) not keen to be a mexican tax resident, 2) the water crisis and 3) leftist gov't. they have elections in june, incumbents are favorites.
[16:14] whaack: brb hoping in a saltmines meeting
[20:20] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#10947 - the $$ also means chicks with expensive tastes.
[20:20] sourcerer: 2024-04-03 16:07:21 (#jwrd) whaack: it's the night life / chicks that draw me in. lots and lots of good bars/clubs/restaurants to go out to. seems a way better place to meet ppl than other spots i've been to. main problem is the $$, it's quite expensive here.
[20:21] jfw: and faced by overload of endless seemingly-options of rich guys
[20:22] jfw: though arguably with online dating that's everywhere in the world anyway
[20:24] jfw: dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#10947 - archive.is is still more like archive.isn't, none of the links work. mind sharing the orig?
[20:25] sourcerer: 2024-04-03 16:07:21 (#jwrd) whaack: it's the night life / chicks that draw me in. lots and lots of good bars/clubs/restaurants to go out to. seems a way better place to meet ppl than other spots i've been to. main problem is the $$, it's quite expensive here.
[20:32] jfw: whaack: but it's good you get a break from the hippie crystals and starbabble, I'm sure that gets old fast.
Day changed to 2024-04-04
[15:22] whaack: jfw: you are right to think that ladies in nyc demand more financially of their partners than in other parts of the world, imo/experience.
[15:22] whaack: sometimes they are the ones with money tho
[17:30] jfw: "uptown girl, she's been livin' in her white bread world..."
[17:32] jfw: I dunno but based on some I've talked to, they still want a guy who can keep up or even keep ahead; on top of the expensive tastes they get at the very least social pressure against dating down
Day changed to 2024-04-05
[20:50] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#10961 -- works for me. here's the original. which I think is paywalled, but zh's paywall too dumb to block archive.is, heh.
[20:50] sourcerer: 2024-04-03 20:24:59 (#jwrd) jfw: dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#10947 - archive.is is still more like archive.isn't, none of the links work. mind sharing the orig?
[21:17] jfw: looks like my paste misfired there, so that was in reference to http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#10946
[21:17] sourcerer: 2024-04-03 15:58:14 (#jwrd) dorion: after being hit w/ highest power bill on record last month after no obvious change in usage and then linked to an article on the looming energy crisis I've been reading about relocation destinations myself this morning, paraguay in particular.
[21:28] jfw: dorion: well, if sourcerer's archiver can arbiter here then it officially, on the objective record, dun work. the last link gave it no valid response at all (looks like 'BadStatusLine' came up from python's httplib), while the last one before that gave this
[21:29] jfw: which looks like this
[21:34] jfw: rather googly of them, huh? we can bot-fetch and save everyone else's stuff to bypass all their derpy protections, meanwhile you can't do the same to ours.
[21:38] jfw: the zh link at least gives me 3 paragraphs followed by a 'Loading...' that doesn't
[21:47] jfw: from what I could tell though, the idea is that the global warming people worked out the permission bits to run their civilization shutdown script on the US power grid. though I expect it's pretty interconnected with the neighbors so you're figuring MX will be affected?
[22:32] dorion: I suspect MX could be affected, but closer to home, Panama is in a worse situation.
[22:34] dorion: jfw, I get your frustation w/ archive.is and this isn't the first time it has come up. that being said, it works on my v45 firefox, not just africanlinux.
[22:48] jfw: dorion, so what's the theory, it works ~randomly based on user agent fingerprint or something?
[22:50] jfw: you said "works for me". I guess you just meant to offer that as a data point, but it tends to suggest a side of "and therefore that it doesn't work for you is because you're doing it wrong"
[22:52] jfw: because often enough it does mean that, so I felt the onus to provide evidence for my general statement (doesn't work, period).
[23:26] dorion: I don't know why it works for me and in this case I didn't mean to suggest you're doing it wrong either, was more providing the data point.
Day changed to 2024-04-07
[23:37] jfw: dorion: as yrc is now literally getting all the bells and whistles, what do you think about when it should ring the terminal bell? it'll be accompanied by highlighting the source of the ding in green in the window list. my first thought was for nick mentions in chan plus anything in PM
[23:38] jfw: but the latter could get annoying/spammy, i.e. since anyone on the network can send PMs whether you 'joined' or not
[23:40] jfw: then, should it ding even when the window is focused? the argument for it would be that the program can't really tell whether it's focused (much less whether you're looking), like you could be switched out at the screen/tmux or even KVM level, so it's just not meaningful to decide on that basis
[23:42] jfw: then screen/tmux in turn can interpret the bell to set their own activity flag reliably.
[23:43] jfw: the argument against, of course, is that if you have an actual bell hooked up then ding-ding-ding while active in a PM convo is annoying.
[23:45] jfw: (for each change I'm making & testing in this "facelift" series, I look back at my production instance and think "ugh, I was putting up with THAT?")
[23:56] dorion: jfw, well in the other messaging apps I use I tend to turn off bells, so maybe not the greatest person to ask on this. maybe I'd use them here because more signal though.
[23:58] dorion: seems like the decision you're ultimately asking about is ding for PMs or not.
[23:59] dorion: how about 2 user configurable flags, 1 for dings for mentions in channels you're in and 1 for PMs.
[23:59] dorion: if you have the PMs flag set, you're getting them all the time.
[23:59] jfw: kinda hoping to avoid configurable flags but it might be necessary.
Day changed to 2024-04-08
[00:00] dorion: I think it is.
[00:04] jfw: if you don't like terminal bells generally you can always disable it at that level, which is what I tend to do.
[00:05] dorion: fair enough.
[00:06] dorion: would be new territory for me, never found the need to do that.
[00:10] jfw: there's various reasons you might have never heard the traditional terminal bell, from the machine not having the traditional piezo buzzer known as 'pc speaker', to linux being built without pcspkr module, to being disabled at tty level (setterm -blength 0) or X server (xset -b)
[00:11] jfw: the bell 'protocol' is built right into ASCII though, just print 0x07 to the terminal and it beeps if it can.
[00:15] jfw: the antec p101 case came with no pc speaker, and something inside me died. I stuck in the one from the old busted case. how else to listen to the BIOS status beeps?!
[00:15] jfw: next thing they'll be shipping without power buttons.
[00:29] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#10992 - this makes sense but then it's not really 2 independent settings, more like one with three levels
[00:29] sourcerer: 2024-04-07 23:59:34 (#jwrd) dorion: if you have the PMs flag set, you're getting them all the time.
[00:38] jfw: if it's configurable then there's a question of whether to recheck the config for each message, or just on startup or when. I guess since some log file is being written on each message anyway (for most message types) it's not necessarily the worst thing to always reread
[00:39] jfw: well, at worst it'd just reread on each 'trigger' message.
[01:00] jfw: fwiw there's a couple other cases where I'm adding bells too, besides mentions and PMs: client errors, server errors and kicked-from-channel.
Day changed to 2024-04-09
[00:01] sstacksyrc: howdy
[03:48] jfw: hey sstacksyrc, how goes?
[21:37] sstacksyrc: hey jfw, doing great, trying to remember everything learned with you guys. i think i will need to go over the recordings.
[23:14] jfw: sstacksyrc: cool, how's the btc node doing? if you need suggestions for a constructive exercise, you could give a try at installing my latest update
[23:17] jfw: and rumor has it that my stuff is still "too hard" to approach and so a more beginner level walkthrough of what it's about and how to install/setup is something that would be welcomed
Day changed to 2024-04-10
[21:06] sstacksyrc: \[p---000000000000000000000000
[21:08] sstacksyrc: hey jfw. actually i stopped my node without considering if i know how to make it run again.
[21:08] sstacksyrc: This happened 2 days ago
[21:08] sstacksyrc: ill check out your article
[21:10] sstacksyrc: well.. i would say its not easy. But i wouldnt think is TOO HARD to approach it at all. It indeed requires being intentional and make some effort. Scarce qualities.
[21:13] jfw: sstacksyrc: well at simplest you just run 'bitcoind'. you'd probably want to do it in a tmux though so it doesn't monopolize the terminal. then the next level is to run it as a daemontools service, which I do but not sure if we got that fancy.
[21:16] sstacksyrc: well i did ran bitcoind
[21:16] sstacksyrc: but is says is already running
[21:17] sstacksyrc: when i try to retrieve blockcount it says it cant connect to server
[21:17] sstacksyrc: its like having the client of an app open, but with no connection
[21:18] jfw: hm. is it listed in "ps"? you can run "ps -l | grep bitcoind" to filter
[21:20] jfw: I'm finding a message "Cannot obtain a lock on data directory ... Bitcoin is probably already running." is it that one?
[21:21] sstacksyrc: yeah
[21:23] jfw: to which question?
[21:25] sstacksyrc: sorry, to the last one
[21:25] sstacksyrc: I did the first one. Ill type output
[21:26] jfw: I don't need the number columns and such, just whether there's an entry for bitcoind (not counting the "grep")
[21:26] sstacksyrc: S 1000 348 301 795 4 tty2 21:06 00:00:00 grep bitcoind
[21:27] jfw: and that's the only one?
[21:29] sstacksyrc: yes
[21:29] jfw: ok so assuming no misspelling, it's not in fact running.
[21:30] sstacksyrc: did not misspelled, im sure.
[21:30] sstacksyrc: So im pretty sure, on recordings must be the instructions on how to run it
[21:31] sstacksyrc: if i want to be intelectually honest, i should just review everything from scratch
[21:35] jfw: perhaps it'll turn up something basic you've missed, true
[21:35] sstacksyrc: when next teka's meetup?
[21:37] jfw: none planned at the moment I'm afraid
[21:37] jfw: maybe we got tired of the one-way, presentation format
[21:41] sstacksyrc: Before your vacation trip, we had planned a meeting robinson and i to talk about this
[21:41] sstacksyrc: we should pick it up
[21:42] sstacksyrc: Tuesdays at night are better for me.
[21:42] jfw: sounds like a good idea, we can talk here or set up a zoom meeting
[21:43] sstacksyrc: this next tuesday i already have an appointment though. We can do it on the next one.. the 23
[21:43] sstacksyrc: virtually would be much more easier
[21:43] jfw: by "here" I mean irc
[21:44] jfw: I looked into the Boost code behind the error in question and one possible explanation comes up, that it's actually a permission error on the lock file rather than that it's already locked
[21:45] sstacksyrc: Do you guys have like a written business plan that includes divulgation strats?
[21:46] sstacksyrc: You say that just by running bitcoind it should be up and running?
[21:46] sstacksyrc: theres no additional step needed?
[21:46] jfw: correct, but the error you mention means it's failing to start
[21:47] sstacksyrc: Ok, maybe a simple reboot should do
[21:47] jfw: if you "ls -l ~/.bitcoin/.lock", is it found and what is the owner & group (3rd & 4th columns)?
[21:48] sstacksyrc: ok, give me a sec
[21:48] sstacksyrc: nevermind jfw
[21:48] sstacksyrc: i just got the blockcount
[21:48] sstacksyrc: lol
[21:49] sstacksyrc: 838229
[21:49] jfw: ha, ok then. just a couple days behind. I guess it was just starting up when you tried before?
[21:51] jfw: otherwise, I had to look up "divulgation" and still not sure what "strats" are. our plans aren't secret or anything; let me see
[21:51] sstacksyrc: yes, right after i replied few moments ago i tried running again bitcoind
[21:52] sstacksyrc: HAHHAAAHA
[21:52] sstacksyrc: well I actually ment like if you have something marketing strategies on the table
[21:55] jfw: re business plans the closest would be http://dorion-mode.com/2019/11/jwrd-computing-the-why-how-what-and-way-forward/ and http://dorion-mode.com/2020/05/protect-what-matters-with-jwrd/ though I'm not sure that does much for marketing strategies as such
[21:58] jfw: there's been word-of-mouth ie WoT based referrals, face-to-face events, dorion spent a bunch of time in the whatsapp swamps, where we found you but not much else, ending at http://dorion-mode.com/2023/07/the-root-of-our-dispute-is-i-value-substance-over-form-and-thus-manage-to-learn-and-grow-while-you-cling-to-form-and-thus-dwell-in-mediocrity/
[22:00] jfw: recently we placed some flyers at a local coin exchange, and he's been thinking of 'taking the fight to the enemy' via twitter or the like
[22:00] sstacksyrc: ok, ill go through these articles
[22:00] sstacksyrc: is there any chance you can email me those?
[22:01] sstacksyrc: i can always type it if you rather not
[22:01] jfw: sure, but also the blogs have a feature where you can just type enough of a prefix to disambiguate
[22:01] sstacksyrc: oh great, so that will do for me
[22:01] jfw: http://dorion-mode.com/jwrd-comp for instance redirects
[22:05] jfw: or you could just click them in the web view of the logs.
Day changed to 2024-04-15
[00:39] dorion checks back in after weekend ayahuasca ceremony, which I found quite healing and powerful. more details to come on dorion-mode.
[00:45] dorion: whaack, cruciform, jwm, BobbyBuckets, the next ceremony with this group is may 3rd & 4th, which I'm planning to attend and would like to invite you all to. Ideally we'd go to the site a couple days before and stay up there a couple days after. It's a pretty pretty setting in the mountains ~2 hrs west of panama city, has a swimable stream running through the property and is covered in fruit trees.
[00:53] dorion: good place to get your thoughts cleared up and plan power moves.
[01:08] dorion: the previously mentioned mexico city trip is on hold on my end until I have some clarity on the deals I'm developing there.
[01:14] dorion: if 1st week of may is too short notice, I think the next one in panama would be towards to beginning of june.
[05:09] whaack: dorion: I'm excited to read your article. That said, I am going to be busy until mid-May with family obligations. Also, I have heard a lot of good things about ayahuasca, but I'm not so interested in taking psychedelics of any form. So I probably wouldn't go regardless.
[12:53] dorion: whaack, alright, I understand. enjoy the family.
[14:03] dorion: whaack, do you mind sharing more about your position on psychedelics ?
Day changed to 2024-04-16
[16:20] whaack: I have personally seen one friend become ~addicted to acid, resulting in the person becoming quite spacey. I have a friend of a friend who I'm told became permanently mentally retarded, akin to someone with down syndrome, after taking acid. I think they offer only the sensation of enlightenment rather than actual enlightenment. I almost think that's how the drug becomes addicting, it gives you an illusion of self discovery or unlocking the secrets of some de
[16:20] whaack: eper meaning.
[16:24] whaack: I've had only one bad trip ever, it was my first one and I just took too much without having an idea of what I was undertaking, I will going to detail but it was a quite bad experience. Afterwards I tried it again a couple times and it was always very fun. I'm grateful for the experience, it's certainly one hell of a drug. I wouldn't be surprised though if there was a measurable loss in cognitive abilities post drug use, hard to say. But one things for certa
[16:24] whaack: in, it really has an affect on your brain and the experience is so intense that it can change you. I'm not willing to take the gamble that that change is for the better.
[16:24] whaack: i WON'T* get into detail (lol @ stt)
[17:24] jfw: whaack, I suppose I'm on the fence about Ayahuasca; I haven't tried yet but it's been somewhat normalized to me by living here and meeting various people who have
[17:28] jfw: possibly worth distinguishing from lsd though; it's an old tradition - not sure how old but at least it's not something popping out of a biochem lab in the 1950s or w/e. active ingredient is DMT which as I'm told the body produces & breaks down naturally
[17:29] jfw: the accounts of visual hallucinations and a sense of deeper meaning or connection sound similar
[17:31] jfw: as to therapeutic aspects, the idea seems to be that it helps you see what you already know or have inside but perhaps weren't able to face head-on
[17:49] jfw: I suppose like any significant journey, there can be hazards on the road and you can get lost there if you're the type who's going to get lost
[19:26] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#11082 -- thanks for sharing, sorry to hear about your friends. I've never tried acid. In any case, what matters most is what is done with whatever information is uncovered in the experience.
[19:26] sourcerer: 2024-04-16 16:20:53 (#jwrd) whaack: I have personally seen one friend become ~addicted to acid, resulting in the person becoming quite spacey. I have a friend of a friend who I'm told became permanently mentally retarded, akin to someone with down syndrome, after taking acid. I think they offer only the sensation of enlightenment rather than actual enlightenment. I almost think that's how the drug
[19:32] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#11084 -- in my experience one thing that seems different about these ceremonies is while they can be fun (and with some great music too), having fun/partying isn't really the point. the focus of the shaman and the people who attend is to heal something, work on something. whether that be mental, physical, spiritual.
[19:32] sourcerer: 2024-04-16 16:24:21 (#jwrd) whaack: I've had only one bad trip ever, it was my first one and I just took too much without having an idea of what I was undertaking, I will going to detail but it was a quite bad experience. Afterwards I tried it again a couple times and it was always very fun. I'm grateful for the experience, it's certainly one hell of a drug. I wouldn't be surprised though if there
[19:37] dorion: while gov'ts may classify it as a drug, they refer to it as medicine. and while the cynic might say that's a form of marketing to hook more users, I don't feel like I've been intoxicated by it. there have been sensations of dizzyness as times and I have vomited, but it has been quite different than an alcohol intoxication. I don't have any other drugs to compare it to really as my nose is rather
[19:37] dorion: clean.
[19:37] dorion: I don't say the above to pressure you or anything, just sharing my perspective/experience.
[19:38] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#11091 -- good way to put it.
[19:38] sourcerer: 2024-04-16 17:49:49 (#jwrd) jfw: I suppose like any significant journey, there can be hazards on the road and you can get lost there if you're the type who's going to get lost
Day changed to 2024-04-18
[16:55] cruciform: oh, hai there
[17:53] dorion: hey cruciform ! how goes ?
[17:56] cruciform: not too badly - just hunkering down for an evening of JWRD work
[17:56] cruciform: how're things on your end?
[17:58] cruciform: also, happy imminent-halvening: 189 blocks to go!
[19:14] dorion: cruciform, nice. things are ok here. moving forward on various fronts.
Day changed to 2024-04-19
[15:01] jfw: wb, Don Cruciform de la Sleepymac
[15:01] cruciform: :)
[15:01] cruciform: trying to find the button to stop him from dozing off
[15:13] jfw: probably gotta upload a permission slip from al gore to emit that carbon now
[15:18] cruciform: and here I was, thinking MBP stood for MacBook Pro (Man Bear Pig is still a thing!?)
[15:25] jfw: man bear pig is real, yo, it's time to get cereal
Day changed to 2024-04-20
[00:13] jfw: http://explorer.ztkfg.com/?args=view-block+840000
[00:14] jfw: hash: 0000000000000000000320283a032748cef8227873ff4872689bf23f1cda83a5
[00:17] jfw: fees_btc: 37.62561499 - significantly higher than neighboring blocks. guess the party came with a raffle and some miner scooped it
Day changed to 2024-04-29
[16:22] dorion: cruciform, how about you look into running yrc on your thinkpad to mitigate all this join/quit monkey business ?
[01:15] jfw: this weird warning came up again, namely "Could not find platform dependent libraries <exec_prefix>" on python startup. it's searching for a lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/ directory, not because it needs it but just as a "landmark" for reassurance that it found its proper exec_prefix for later loading dynamic shared libraries.
[01:15] sourcerer: 2022-05-02 19:21:12 (#jwrd) jfw: the exec_prefix/PYTHONHOME thing looks like a red herring - I don't expect there are any "platform dependent libraries" to load since it's a static build, perhaps it's a python or packaging bug - but the real problem is simply the "No module named pip". It's not installed!
[01:18] jfw: why does a static build have anything to do with shared libs? because while the build system does support all-static linking, it's been decaying and they don't bother with fully disabling the dll stuff.
[01:19] jfw: why does the problem only come up now? because the python packages I'm building now don't include that empty lib-dynload dir, while the one I built years ago did.
[01:22] jfw: why this difference, when there were no changes to the gport in this interval? because of a deranged Makefile rule that names a target as $(DESTSHARED) which expands to *a full path in the final installed location*, not relative to the build tree or $(DESTDIR) where it's supposed to be creating stuff.
[01:23] jfw: ergo, if you don't have python installed on the box, the rule executes and creates the required lib-dynload under DESTDIR and it ends up in the package
[01:25] jfw: while if you already have python installed, "make" sees that the supposedly desired file exists, and so doesn't run the code to create it.
[01:27] jfw: so if you then meanwhile remove /gales/pkg/python* and reinstall from the binary package, or perhaps copy the binary package to a fresh machine to accelerate installation, you're left without the dir and you get the warning.
[01:30] jfw: can't tell why they did it like that, either. it's basic "how NOT to write a Makefile".
[01:34] jfw: the name of the target == the file created by the recipe == the indication of success. or else it's a 'phony' rule like 'clean' or 'install' that doesn't fit that pattern (creating a specific file) and is meant to always run when invoked, in which case you either list it explicitly as phony or else make sure it doesn't conflict with actual file names in your tree.
[01:36] jfw: make works great, when used properly. it ain't rocket science. yeesh.
[02:38] jfw: dorion: I've fixed that in the gport as well as the standard 'multiprocessing' module which failed to load due to missing its C parts in _multiprocessing (iirc that came up some years ago when I was trying to do fancier python stuff; I never meant it to be left out but it simply wasn't listed in their example of how to build the necessary modules statically)
[02:39] jfw: confusing grammar: I've fixed that in the gport, as well as fixing the standard...
[02:43] jfw: the exec_prefix workaround for affected systems is simply: mkdir /gales/pkg/python/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload ; and I believe I've done that on all such affected.
Day changed to 2024-04-03
[15:39] whaack: greetings from upstate ny
[15:40] whaack: ive had a great time in nyc, i'm considering going back to roots and spending 6months here or such
[15:51] dorion: hey whaack.
[15:51] dorion: what part of upstate ?
[15:51] whaack: fort plains
[15:52] whaack: small town where my dad lives
[15:52] whaack: but if i wer eto live here it would be in nyc itself
[15:52] whaack: or jersey city
[15:54] dorion: what have you liked about it ?
[15:58] dorion: after being hit w/ highest power bill on record last month after no obvious change in usage and then linked to an article on the looming energy crisis I've been reading about relocation destinations myself this morning, paraguay in particular.
[16:07] whaack: it's the night life / chicks that draw me in. lots and lots of good bars/clubs/restaurants to go out to. seems a way better place to meet ppl than other spots i've been to. main problem is the $$, it's quite expensive here.
[16:07] dorion: why ? 1) easy immigration w/ tax free living, 2) abundant energy, 3) relatively strong agriculture, 4) temperate weather. it's not going to be the most exciting place to live and I'd not be too keen to be there much more than 6months/year, but I don't think I need too too much external stimulus and if/when desired, can travel for it.
[16:08] whaack: interesting. i'd be happy to check out that place as well.
[16:09] whaack: and ofc. nyc is home for me so i have friends/family here as well
[16:09] dorion: definitely nice scenery in nyc, but how have they been to talk to ? I suppose one benefit of nyc is lots of foreigners who perhaps aren't new yorktarded yet.
[16:10] whaack: i have to go out more still to judge. but anything is better than dealing with hippies talking about crystals and astrology (like ive found in CR)
[16:10] dorion: lol.
[16:12] dorion: how's your schedule shaping up for cdmx ? I'm thinking now first coupla weeks in may would be better for me. avoid elections in panama.
[16:14] dorion: my biggest reservations about cdmx as a base are 1) not keen to be a mexican tax resident, 2) the water crisis and 3) leftist gov't. they have elections in june, incumbents are favorites.
[16:14] whaack: brb hoping in a saltmines meeting
[20:20] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#10947 - the $$ also means chicks with expensive tastes.
[20:20] sourcerer: 2024-04-03 16:07:21 (#jwrd) whaack: it's the night life / chicks that draw me in. lots and lots of good bars/clubs/restaurants to go out to. seems a way better place to meet ppl than other spots i've been to. main problem is the $$, it's quite expensive here.
[20:21] jfw: and faced by overload of endless seemingly-options of rich guys
[20:22] jfw: though arguably with online dating that's everywhere in the world anyway
[20:24] jfw: dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#10947 - archive.is is still more like archive.isn't, none of the links work. mind sharing the orig?
[20:25] sourcerer: 2024-04-03 16:07:21 (#jwrd) whaack: it's the night life / chicks that draw me in. lots and lots of good bars/clubs/restaurants to go out to. seems a way better place to meet ppl than other spots i've been to. main problem is the $$, it's quite expensive here.
[20:32] jfw: whaack: but it's good you get a break from the hippie crystals and starbabble, I'm sure that gets old fast.
Day changed to 2024-04-04
[15:22] whaack: jfw: you are right to think that ladies in nyc demand more financially of their partners than in other parts of the world, imo/experience.
[15:22] whaack: sometimes they are the ones with money tho
[17:30] jfw: "uptown girl, she's been livin' in her white bread world..."
[17:32] jfw: I dunno but based on some I've talked to, they still want a guy who can keep up or even keep ahead; on top of the expensive tastes they get at the very least social pressure against dating down
Day changed to 2024-04-05
[20:50] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#10961 -- works for me. here's the original. which I think is paywalled, but zh's paywall too dumb to block archive.is, heh.
[20:50] sourcerer: 2024-04-03 20:24:59 (#jwrd) jfw: dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#10947 - archive.is is still more like archive.isn't, none of the links work. mind sharing the orig?
[21:17] jfw: looks like my paste misfired there, so that was in reference to http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#10946
[21:17] sourcerer: 2024-04-03 15:58:14 (#jwrd) dorion: after being hit w/ highest power bill on record last month after no obvious change in usage and then linked to an article on the looming energy crisis I've been reading about relocation destinations myself this morning, paraguay in particular.
[21:28] jfw: dorion: well, if sourcerer's archiver can arbiter here then it officially, on the objective record, dun work. the last link gave it no valid response at all (looks like 'BadStatusLine' came up from python's httplib), while the last one before that gave this
[21:29] jfw: which looks like this
[21:34] jfw: rather googly of them, huh? we can bot-fetch and save everyone else's stuff to bypass all their derpy protections, meanwhile you can't do the same to ours.
[21:38] jfw: the zh link at least gives me 3 paragraphs followed by a 'Loading...' that doesn't
[21:47] jfw: from what I could tell though, the idea is that the global warming people worked out the permission bits to run their civilization shutdown script on the US power grid. though I expect it's pretty interconnected with the neighbors so you're figuring MX will be affected?
[22:32] dorion: I suspect MX could be affected, but closer to home, Panama is in a worse situation.
[22:34] dorion: jfw, I get your frustation w/ archive.is and this isn't the first time it has come up. that being said, it works on my v45 firefox, not just africanlinux.
[22:48] jfw: dorion, so what's the theory, it works ~randomly based on user agent fingerprint or something?
[22:50] jfw: you said "works for me". I guess you just meant to offer that as a data point, but it tends to suggest a side of "and therefore that it doesn't work for you is because you're doing it wrong"
[22:52] jfw: because often enough it does mean that, so I felt the onus to provide evidence for my general statement (doesn't work, period).
[23:26] dorion: I don't know why it works for me and in this case I didn't mean to suggest you're doing it wrong either, was more providing the data point.
Day changed to 2024-04-07
[23:37] jfw: dorion: as yrc is now literally getting all the bells and whistles, what do you think about when it should ring the terminal bell? it'll be accompanied by highlighting the source of the ding in green in the window list. my first thought was for nick mentions in chan plus anything in PM
[23:38] jfw: but the latter could get annoying/spammy, i.e. since anyone on the network can send PMs whether you 'joined' or not
[23:40] jfw: then, should it ding even when the window is focused? the argument for it would be that the program can't really tell whether it's focused (much less whether you're looking), like you could be switched out at the screen/tmux or even KVM level, so it's just not meaningful to decide on that basis
[23:42] jfw: then screen/tmux in turn can interpret the bell to set their own activity flag reliably.
[23:43] jfw: the argument against, of course, is that if you have an actual bell hooked up then ding-ding-ding while active in a PM convo is annoying.
[23:45] jfw: (for each change I'm making & testing in this "facelift" series, I look back at my production instance and think "ugh, I was putting up with THAT?")
[23:56] dorion: jfw, well in the other messaging apps I use I tend to turn off bells, so maybe not the greatest person to ask on this. maybe I'd use them here because more signal though.
[23:58] dorion: seems like the decision you're ultimately asking about is ding for PMs or not.
[23:59] dorion: how about 2 user configurable flags, 1 for dings for mentions in channels you're in and 1 for PMs.
[23:59] dorion: if you have the PMs flag set, you're getting them all the time.
[23:59] jfw: kinda hoping to avoid configurable flags but it might be necessary.
Day changed to 2024-04-08
[00:00] dorion: I think it is.
[00:04] jfw: if you don't like terminal bells generally you can always disable it at that level, which is what I tend to do.
[00:05] dorion: fair enough.
[00:06] dorion: would be new territory for me, never found the need to do that.
[00:10] jfw: there's various reasons you might have never heard the traditional terminal bell, from the machine not having the traditional piezo buzzer known as 'pc speaker', to linux being built without pcspkr module, to being disabled at tty level (setterm -blength 0) or X server (xset -b)
[00:11] jfw: the bell 'protocol' is built right into ASCII though, just print 0x07 to the terminal and it beeps if it can.
[00:15] jfw: the antec p101 case came with no pc speaker, and something inside me died. I stuck in the one from the old busted case. how else to listen to the BIOS status beeps?!
[00:15] jfw: next thing they'll be shipping without power buttons.
[00:29] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#10992 - this makes sense but then it's not really 2 independent settings, more like one with three levels
[00:29] sourcerer: 2024-04-07 23:59:34 (#jwrd) dorion: if you have the PMs flag set, you're getting them all the time.
[00:38] jfw: if it's configurable then there's a question of whether to recheck the config for each message, or just on startup or when. I guess since some log file is being written on each message anyway (for most message types) it's not necessarily the worst thing to always reread
[00:39] jfw: well, at worst it'd just reread on each 'trigger' message.
[01:00] jfw: fwiw there's a couple other cases where I'm adding bells too, besides mentions and PMs: client errors, server errors and kicked-from-channel.
Day changed to 2024-04-09
[00:01] sstacksyrc: howdy
[03:48] jfw: hey sstacksyrc, how goes?
[21:37] sstacksyrc: hey jfw, doing great, trying to remember everything learned with you guys. i think i will need to go over the recordings.
[23:14] jfw: sstacksyrc: cool, how's the btc node doing? if you need suggestions for a constructive exercise, you could give a try at installing my latest update
[23:17] jfw: and rumor has it that my stuff is still "too hard" to approach and so a more beginner level walkthrough of what it's about and how to install/setup is something that would be welcomed
Day changed to 2024-04-10
[21:06] sstacksyrc: \[p---000000000000000000000000
[21:08] sstacksyrc: hey jfw. actually i stopped my node without considering if i know how to make it run again.
[21:08] sstacksyrc: This happened 2 days ago
[21:08] sstacksyrc: ill check out your article
[21:10] sstacksyrc: well.. i would say its not easy. But i wouldnt think is TOO HARD to approach it at all. It indeed requires being intentional and make some effort. Scarce qualities.
[21:13] jfw: sstacksyrc: well at simplest you just run 'bitcoind'. you'd probably want to do it in a tmux though so it doesn't monopolize the terminal. then the next level is to run it as a daemontools service, which I do but not sure if we got that fancy.
[21:16] sstacksyrc: well i did ran bitcoind
[21:16] sstacksyrc: but is says is already running
[21:17] sstacksyrc: when i try to retrieve blockcount it says it cant connect to server
[21:17] sstacksyrc: its like having the client of an app open, but with no connection
[21:18] jfw: hm. is it listed in "ps"? you can run "ps -l | grep bitcoind" to filter
[21:20] jfw: I'm finding a message "Cannot obtain a lock on data directory ... Bitcoin is probably already running." is it that one?
[21:21] sstacksyrc: yeah
[21:23] jfw: to which question?
[21:25] sstacksyrc: sorry, to the last one
[21:25] sstacksyrc: I did the first one. Ill type output
[21:26] jfw: I don't need the number columns and such, just whether there's an entry for bitcoind (not counting the "grep")
[21:26] sstacksyrc: S 1000 348 301 795 4 tty2 21:06 00:00:00 grep bitcoind
[21:27] jfw: and that's the only one?
[21:29] sstacksyrc: yes
[21:29] jfw: ok so assuming no misspelling, it's not in fact running.
[21:30] sstacksyrc: did not misspelled, im sure.
[21:30] sstacksyrc: So im pretty sure, on recordings must be the instructions on how to run it
[21:31] sstacksyrc: if i want to be intelectually honest, i should just review everything from scratch
[21:35] jfw: perhaps it'll turn up something basic you've missed, true
[21:35] sstacksyrc: when next teka's meetup?
[21:37] jfw: none planned at the moment I'm afraid
[21:37] jfw: maybe we got tired of the one-way, presentation format
[21:41] sstacksyrc: Before your vacation trip, we had planned a meeting robinson and i to talk about this
[21:41] sstacksyrc: we should pick it up
[21:42] sstacksyrc: Tuesdays at night are better for me.
[21:42] jfw: sounds like a good idea, we can talk here or set up a zoom meeting
[21:43] sstacksyrc: this next tuesday i already have an appointment though. We can do it on the next one.. the 23
[21:43] sstacksyrc: virtually would be much more easier
[21:43] jfw: by "here" I mean irc
[21:44] jfw: I looked into the Boost code behind the error in question and one possible explanation comes up, that it's actually a permission error on the lock file rather than that it's already locked
[21:45] sstacksyrc: Do you guys have like a written business plan that includes divulgation strats?
[21:46] sstacksyrc: You say that just by running bitcoind it should be up and running?
[21:46] sstacksyrc: theres no additional step needed?
[21:46] jfw: correct, but the error you mention means it's failing to start
[21:47] sstacksyrc: Ok, maybe a simple reboot should do
[21:47] jfw: if you "ls -l ~/.bitcoin/.lock", is it found and what is the owner & group (3rd & 4th columns)?
[21:48] sstacksyrc: ok, give me a sec
[21:48] sstacksyrc: nevermind jfw
[21:48] sstacksyrc: i just got the blockcount
[21:48] sstacksyrc: lol
[21:49] sstacksyrc: 838229
[21:49] jfw: ha, ok then. just a couple days behind. I guess it was just starting up when you tried before?
[21:51] jfw: otherwise, I had to look up "divulgation" and still not sure what "strats" are. our plans aren't secret or anything; let me see
[21:51] sstacksyrc: yes, right after i replied few moments ago i tried running again bitcoind
[21:52] sstacksyrc: HAHHAAAHA
[21:52] sstacksyrc: well I actually ment like if you have something marketing strategies on the table
[21:55] jfw: re business plans the closest would be http://dorion-mode.com/2019/11/jwrd-computing-the-why-how-what-and-way-forward/ and http://dorion-mode.com/2020/05/protect-what-matters-with-jwrd/ though I'm not sure that does much for marketing strategies as such
[21:58] jfw: there's been word-of-mouth ie WoT based referrals, face-to-face events, dorion spent a bunch of time in the whatsapp swamps, where we found you but not much else, ending at http://dorion-mode.com/2023/07/the-root-of-our-dispute-is-i-value-substance-over-form-and-thus-manage-to-learn-and-grow-while-you-cling-to-form-and-thus-dwell-in-mediocrity/
[22:00] jfw: recently we placed some flyers at a local coin exchange, and he's been thinking of 'taking the fight to the enemy' via twitter or the like
[22:00] sstacksyrc: ok, ill go through these articles
[22:00] sstacksyrc: is there any chance you can email me those?
[22:01] sstacksyrc: i can always type it if you rather not
[22:01] jfw: sure, but also the blogs have a feature where you can just type enough of a prefix to disambiguate
[22:01] sstacksyrc: oh great, so that will do for me
[22:01] jfw: http://dorion-mode.com/jwrd-comp for instance redirects
[22:05] jfw: or you could just click them in the web view of the logs.
Day changed to 2024-04-15
[00:39] dorion checks back in after weekend ayahuasca ceremony, which I found quite healing and powerful. more details to come on dorion-mode.
[00:45] dorion: whaack, cruciform, jwm, BobbyBuckets, the next ceremony with this group is may 3rd & 4th, which I'm planning to attend and would like to invite you all to. Ideally we'd go to the site a couple days before and stay up there a couple days after. It's a pretty pretty setting in the mountains ~2 hrs west of panama city, has a swimable stream running through the property and is covered in fruit trees.
[00:53] dorion: good place to get your thoughts cleared up and plan power moves.
[01:08] dorion: the previously mentioned mexico city trip is on hold on my end until I have some clarity on the deals I'm developing there.
[01:14] dorion: if 1st week of may is too short notice, I think the next one in panama would be towards to beginning of june.
[05:09] whaack: dorion: I'm excited to read your article. That said, I am going to be busy until mid-May with family obligations. Also, I have heard a lot of good things about ayahuasca, but I'm not so interested in taking psychedelics of any form. So I probably wouldn't go regardless.
[12:53] dorion: whaack, alright, I understand. enjoy the family.
[14:03] dorion: whaack, do you mind sharing more about your position on psychedelics ?
Day changed to 2024-04-16
[16:20] whaack: I have personally seen one friend become ~addicted to acid, resulting in the person becoming quite spacey. I have a friend of a friend who I'm told became permanently mentally retarded, akin to someone with down syndrome, after taking acid. I think they offer only the sensation of enlightenment rather than actual enlightenment. I almost think that's how the drug becomes addicting, it gives you an illusion of self discovery or unlocking the secrets of some de
[16:20] whaack: eper meaning.
[16:24] whaack: I've had only one bad trip ever, it was my first one and I just took too much without having an idea of what I was undertaking, I will going to detail but it was a quite bad experience. Afterwards I tried it again a couple times and it was always very fun. I'm grateful for the experience, it's certainly one hell of a drug. I wouldn't be surprised though if there was a measurable loss in cognitive abilities post drug use, hard to say. But one things for certa
[16:24] whaack: in, it really has an affect on your brain and the experience is so intense that it can change you. I'm not willing to take the gamble that that change is for the better.
[16:24] whaack: i WON'T* get into detail (lol @ stt)
[17:24] jfw: whaack, I suppose I'm on the fence about Ayahuasca; I haven't tried yet but it's been somewhat normalized to me by living here and meeting various people who have
[17:28] jfw: possibly worth distinguishing from lsd though; it's an old tradition - not sure how old but at least it's not something popping out of a biochem lab in the 1950s or w/e. active ingredient is DMT which as I'm told the body produces & breaks down naturally
[17:29] jfw: the accounts of visual hallucinations and a sense of deeper meaning or connection sound similar
[17:31] jfw: as to therapeutic aspects, the idea seems to be that it helps you see what you already know or have inside but perhaps weren't able to face head-on
[17:49] jfw: I suppose like any significant journey, there can be hazards on the road and you can get lost there if you're the type who's going to get lost
[19:26] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#11082 -- thanks for sharing, sorry to hear about your friends. I've never tried acid. In any case, what matters most is what is done with whatever information is uncovered in the experience.
[19:26] sourcerer: 2024-04-16 16:20:53 (#jwrd) whaack: I have personally seen one friend become ~addicted to acid, resulting in the person becoming quite spacey. I have a friend of a friend who I'm told became permanently mentally retarded, akin to someone with down syndrome, after taking acid. I think they offer only the sensation of enlightenment rather than actual enlightenment. I almost think that's how the drug
[19:32] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#11084 -- in my experience one thing that seems different about these ceremonies is while they can be fun (and with some great music too), having fun/partying isn't really the point. the focus of the shaman and the people who attend is to heal something, work on something. whether that be mental, physical, spiritual.
[19:32] sourcerer: 2024-04-16 16:24:21 (#jwrd) whaack: I've had only one bad trip ever, it was my first one and I just took too much without having an idea of what I was undertaking, I will going to detail but it was a quite bad experience. Afterwards I tried it again a couple times and it was always very fun. I'm grateful for the experience, it's certainly one hell of a drug. I wouldn't be surprised though if there
[19:37] dorion: while gov'ts may classify it as a drug, they refer to it as medicine. and while the cynic might say that's a form of marketing to hook more users, I don't feel like I've been intoxicated by it. there have been sensations of dizzyness as times and I have vomited, but it has been quite different than an alcohol intoxication. I don't have any other drugs to compare it to really as my nose is rather
[19:37] dorion: clean.
[19:37] dorion: I don't say the above to pressure you or anything, just sharing my perspective/experience.
[19:38] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2024/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2024/#11091 -- good way to put it.
[19:38] sourcerer: 2024-04-16 17:49:49 (#jwrd) jfw: I suppose like any significant journey, there can be hazards on the road and you can get lost there if you're the type who's going to get lost
Day changed to 2024-04-18
[16:55] cruciform: oh, hai there
[17:53] dorion: hey cruciform ! how goes ?
[17:56] cruciform: not too badly - just hunkering down for an evening of JWRD work
[17:56] cruciform: how're things on your end?
[17:58] cruciform: also, happy imminent-halvening: 189 blocks to go!
[19:14] dorion: cruciform, nice. things are ok here. moving forward on various fronts.
Day changed to 2024-04-19
[15:01] jfw: wb, Don Cruciform de la Sleepymac
[15:01] cruciform: :)
[15:01] cruciform: trying to find the button to stop him from dozing off
[15:13] jfw: probably gotta upload a permission slip from al gore to emit that carbon now
[15:18] cruciform: and here I was, thinking MBP stood for MacBook Pro (Man Bear Pig is still a thing!?)
[15:25] jfw: man bear pig is real, yo, it's time to get cereal
Day changed to 2024-04-20
[00:13] jfw: http://explorer.ztkfg.com/?args=view-block+840000
[00:14] jfw: hash: 0000000000000000000320283a032748cef8227873ff4872689bf23f1cda83a5
[00:17] jfw: fees_btc: 37.62561499 - significantly higher than neighboring blocks. guess the party came with a raffle and some miner scooped it
Day changed to 2024-04-29
[16:22] dorion: cruciform, how about you look into running yrc on your thinkpad to mitigate all this join/quit monkey business ?