Fixpoint

Day changed to 2023-04-01
[15:47] dorion: hey sstacks, how goes the sync with your node ? go ahead and run either `bitcoind getblockheight` or `bitcoind getinfo` and let us know the height you're at.
[15:48] dorion: also, remember to run, as root, `fstrim -v /home/` every week to improve the longevity of your ssd.
[15:50] dorion: whaack, same applies to you, but I know you're on the road at present.
[19:03] dorion: http://dorion-mode.com/2023/04/a-strong-start-to-the-week-month-and-quarter-with-more-solitude-and-higher-signal-to-noise-rati/
[23:02] jfw: dorion: looks like an extra = slipped into your 'messaging swamps' selection link there, although it still works in an odd approximate sort of way
[23:05] jfw: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#6640 - and here I was going to leave it and let them play guinea pigs, if they so chose, to see how the ssds are actually affected by long term node operation without trimming :D
[23:05] sourcerer: 2023-04-01 15:48:10 (#jwrd) dorion: also, remember to run, as root, `fstrim -v /home/` every week to improve the longevity of your ssd.
[23:08] jfw: fwiw, I trim mine as part of a weekly backup routine to a rotation of normally-offline disks. I should perhaps just automate it as a daily run or something.
[23:22] jfw: https://marc.info/?l=util-linux-ng&m=139706886105041&w=2 is perhaps the answer to the question on "why can't the system trim automatically when space is freed" - it can, but there's an overhead for each trim operation that's economized by doing it in bulk rather than a constant stream of tiny granules.
[23:24] jfw: I have no sympathy for the "too frequent trimming can deteriorate some cheapo ssds" argument - name the names and choose ones that aren't broken.
[23:27] jfw: when discussing trim/discard, you're already dealing with the cheaper class of SSDs; the 'enterprise grade' ones reserve more space internally so they always have plenty of free/eraseable blocks on hand and don't need to scavenge from the crannies of the filesystem. with the drawback of multiplying the cost per GB.
Day changed to 2023-04-02
[01:58] sstacks: hey guys, been having heavy days. Havent been able to continue the program. Will try to catch up on monday, sundayish
[15:36] jfw: sstacks: thanks for the note. whaack, how goes with you?
Day changed to 2023-04-03
[14:10] dorion: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-apr-2023/#6644 -- meant to say, while the value of fstrim is explained in lesson 3, they're also being hit with lots of information every week. the value we're providing in the training is to be guides to btcable people, not pig farmers. I think it's a good idea to test out the actual value of fstrim, but better for us to do it on our own test
[14:10] sourcerer: 2023-04-01 23:05:02 (#jwrd) jfw: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#6640 - and here I was going to leave it and let them play guinea pigs, if they so chose, to see how the ssds are actually affected by long term node operation without trimming :D
[14:10] dorion: hardware.
[14:22] dorion: jfw, thanks for going into further detail though.
[15:02] jfw: aw, so serious.
[15:43] dorion: hey whaack, sstacks, we'll be ready to go tomorrow, but if you prefer, we could take a break this week. iirc whaack is traveling and given it's easter I imagine sstacks has a full plate of festivities. plus, it'd give you both some time to catch up and/or review and consolidate what you've learned so far.
[15:44] dorion: we can still have office hours on thursday at the normal time.
Day changed to 2023-04-04
[22:37] jfw: Mild tremor felt in Panama City, maybe 5-10 seconds. Nothing fell or rattled; it felt like a sudden spell of dizziness where I was wobbling back and forth on my chair
[22:38] jfw: a more lightweight shelving unit was then spotted wobbling likewise.
[23:19] dorion: probably the russians.
[23:19] dorion: http://dorion-mode.com/2023/04/the-ownership-of-bitcoin-custody-transactions-and-dispute-resolution
Day changed to 2023-04-05
[01:41] jfw: it's two for one special day! http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/smartening-up-gbw-node/
[01:42] jfw: that one might be my record for most internal references (pingbacks).
[01:54] jfw: possibly for 'prose' word count too (not code or logs)!
[23:41] jfw: one minor mystery solved: why my zoom box kept "running out of memory" and killing stuff despite showing multiple gigs of physical memory available...
[23:42] jfw: unlike linux, windows doesn't believe in overcommitting memory, which perhaps is why it's so insistent on "must always have a page file with which to thrash your disk and fragment your filesystem!"; nonetheless I'd managed to disable all page files.
[23:45] jfw: which means that, unlike an overcommit system which will randomly kill stuff when physical memory runs out, it's "more reliable" which means it will randomly kill stuff long before physical memory runs out. the "commit" down in the fine print is thus the proper number to watch.
[23:49] jfw: the culprits of course were still zoom and whichever-browser sucking unconscionable amounts of RAM just to do their basic jobs, such that after some forced zoom update I could no longer reliably run the demo VM alongside those two. but, I finally found a supply of the correct part to upgrade my RAM - now 6 gigs, with slot for another 2 so hopefully that'll resolve it.
Day changed to 2023-04-07
[00:01] jfw: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/the-dovecot-reports-how-we-came-to-forking-a-major-email-server/
[01:35] dorion: jfw, nice. right back atchya :
[01:35] dorion: http://dorion-mode.com/2023/04/inflationary-language/
Day changed to 2023-04-09
[15:55] jfw: in outrageous spanish words: paloma means pigeon or dove, as if these don't need distinguishing. palomo then, sensibly enough, means a male dovepigeon, and palomillo is a diminutive dovepigeon. However, palomilla means a moth, which is somehow considered a type of mariposa - butterfly. Except in
[15:55] jfw: Panama and Cuba only where it's a cut of steak, and I'm still no closer to figuring out which.
[15:57] jfw: at least I'll rule out that it was cognate with 'lomo' for loin
[16:04] jfw: "a cut of beef" rather, to speak properly.
Day changed to 2023-04-10
[16:58] jfw: whaack, sstacks, how's it going?
[20:06] jfw: samy: how's it going, have things settled back down yet?
[20:20] sstacks: Hey guys..today im back to regular schedule. Need to catch up on several matters
[20:27] jfw: sstacks: ok; are you clear to continue with the gpg practice (game of telephone)? at some point it'll require whaack too and I'm not sure of his status, though I believe he was scheduled to be back in CR now.
[20:28] sstacks: About that, we have to do the same that we did on the last homework?
[20:29] jfw: well it was deferred from the last homework since we didn't finish the presentation in class that day
[20:30] jfw: and then there was http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Mar-2023/#6630
[20:30] sourcerer: 2023-03-29 23:13:44 (#jwrd) jfw: I changed up the "game of telephone" exercise a bit compared to the previous instructions. First, you'll have to try decrypting each of the above messages to find out which one is for you. Only one of them is the "hot" message: whoever receives this needs to relay it to the other, as explained before. Another message contains additional instructions for the other p
[20:31] jfw: and I suppose the paste links expired by now, sigh.
[20:50] sstacks: How much time for links to expire?
[21:24] dorion: 7 days.
[21:51] dorion: welcome back whaack.
[21:53] whaack2: sorry for responding to the irc messages so late, yes i am back in cr now albeit still on the road and not at my place
[21:56] whaack: and yaeh , just sat down to do the last minute homework and paying the price for tardiness with the expired links.
[21:56] jfw: whaack: I imagine that could be a while given what I've heard of costa rican roads... but you're online for now, or what's the schedule like?
[21:57] jfw: heh, well at least that's one that admits it in clear
[21:57] whaack: yes i'll be online and back at my place in about 5-7 days until May 3rd, where I am going to Paris for 2 weeks. all during this time i'll be able to connect to our sessions
[21:59] jfw: alright
[22:01] jfw: so I dunno, I could dig the messages back up and repaste, though can't say I'm terribly motivated to given that the same effort last time was so valued that nobody even loaded the pages, lol
[22:01] whaack: dorion: ah your welcome back message slipped by when i reconnected, ty
[22:07] whaack: jfw: fair enough , i don't think it'd be right for you to do so, unless you explicitly wanted to, it's also only half the problem as if sstacks is like me he will have not have imported my pub key, (i did not import his) , and that link has also expired
[22:09] whaack: here is my key again, sstacks, http://welshcomputing.com/paste/6vxg3ni8qp
[22:10] whaack: sstacks: when you can post yours again so i can import it
[22:12] sstacks: ok, working on it
[22:17] jfw: I suppose communications practice works just as well for me as security tools practice, given they're two inseperable legs of the 'secure communications' construct we're after
[22:18] dorion: I say give'em another chance at telephone and see if they learn the lesson next time.
[22:22] jfw: I am curious to see how it works out at least.
[22:28] jfw: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/tnr2gpwtsf
[22:28] jfw: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/4htt6eqi6c
[22:28] jfw: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/nkwkbbdmrr
[22:32] sstacks: whaack: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/58bwypu7c9
[22:32] sstacks: This is my pub key
[22:46] sstacks: jfw, have you sent your pub key?
[22:50] whaack: sstacks: i can get that for you
[22:51] whaack: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/ebvifehnri
[22:52] whaack: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/utywjzrdyz
[22:52] whaack: sstacks ^
[22:52] sstacks: thanks bro
[22:59] jfw: ftr, it's at http://welshcomputing.com/jfw.asc linked from my blog's front page.
[23:03] sstacks: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/p5itjdv3iq
[23:16] sstacks: forget my pub key
[23:16] sstacks: ill buy creating another set
[23:16] sstacks: forgot the passphrase i used
[23:55] jfw: sstacks: what's the issue, you try to decrypt something from me, it prompts for passphrase and you can't satisfy it?
[23:55] jfw: that paste there looks like you encrypted something to whaack
Day changed to 2023-04-11
[02:43] whaack2: yes, i received a message from sstacks, but i think jfw's understanding of sstacks's problem is correct, because i do not think that sstacks has read jfw's message nor has he read the message i sent to him based on the message i've received from sstacks
[17:09] jfw: whaack: since it appears a link in the chain has been lost, how about you just paste in channel the code from the message I sent you.
[19:17] whaack2: jfw: roger that, the code is 3626ff37a47dffa503ffe9251c76dbc9
[20:11] jfw: whaack: thank you, looks good!
[20:12] jfw: whaack: we got a distress signal from sstacks about scheduling for today; not sure yet if it will help but how does it suit you to push to same time tomorrow?
[20:14] whaack: jfw: that works just fine for me
[20:14] whaack: lmk if/when that rescheduling is confirmed
[20:15] jfw: whaack: alright, I'll give it 10-15 minutes.
[20:16] jfw: whaack: confirmed for pushing to 16 UTC tomorrow.
[20:16] jfw: *20 UTC, lolz.
[20:16] jfw: *21 !!
[20:16] whaack: alright, see you in 24 hours 45 minutes!
[20:17] jfw: tick, tock
Day changed to 2023-04-12
[00:18] jfw: dorion: following your helpful link re ownership, I come to realize that the saying "the power to tax is the power to destroy" is correct but confusing, suggesting the causal relationship backwards; it's the power to destroy which creates the power to tax.
[00:20] jfw: following to his footnote 'i' though, my stubborn brain won't quite grasp the 'exlusive' aspect, in the example, how destroying food would decrease its actual exchange value; any hints?
[00:34] jfw: for part of it at least, it's helping to imagine if a roving band of hooligans comes a-rovin' through town and burns down assorted houses with impunity, what would happen to the neighborhood property values.
[00:36] jfw: basically the thing is less desirable for the inability to prevent its destruction. but back to the food riots, the value of the food to the consumers doesn't seem reduced, since they'll take it away from the riot-prone market and then it's safer; and it seems that value is what determines what the merchant can demand
[17:25] sstacks: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/reupau88g3
[17:26] sstacks: My public key
[17:31] sstacks: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/h4dnffxskp
[17:33] sstacks: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/8qi49uqger
[17:33] sstacks: Sorry for delay
[17:55] whaack: sstacks: how's it going?
[17:55] sstacks: hey will, sorry for inconvenience yesterday.
[17:55] sstacks: And for delay on creating my new set of keys
[17:57] whaack: caai: how are you doing? i am still interested in discussing / sharing notes regarding treating our perspective issues in the upper extremities. as jfw mentioned before there's no real point in discussing it in private . and information regarding about how to maintain healthy hands, avoid the situation we're in , etc. will be quite useful for others who read the logs
[17:58] whaack: sstacks: np for me, for better or worse i have a very flexible schedule
[18:10] sstacks: whaack: yes, my main concern is that now you guys going to have to resend encrypted msg using my new pub key.
[18:11] whaack: sstacks: i'll send you a msg right now so you can practice decrypting...1 min
[18:13] whaack: sstacks: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/892vkbqp86
[18:13] sstacks: whaack: thanks! I must say, it was good for me practicing creating new set of keys anyways, being optimistic.
[18:13] whaack: haha sure
[18:14] whaack: sstacks: did you use the rng generated by the fuckgoats to make the key?
[18:14] jfw: sstacks: what is it you're encrypting there to me, if you were unable to decrypt in the first place? I don't have the keys handy to check right now and wasn't otherwise expecting something
[18:15] sstacks: whaack: no, i didnt used it. Not vey clear on how to.
[18:16] sstacks: jfw: hey jacob, as i did not remember my passphrase from my original set of keys, i wasent able to decrypt the msg you guys sent. So i generated a new pair and sent new msgs to you
[18:16] jfw: what messages though?
[18:18] sstacks: i think last week you guys sent msg to be decrypted
[18:19] sstacks: Ok i never was able to encrypt msg to you guys since i dint recall my passphrase
[18:19] jfw: yes, and you couldn't, got that. so what was there then to send?? well, I guess I'll just have to find out
[18:20] jfw: you also missed this question it seems, but no matter now.
[18:20] sourcerer: 2023-04-10 23:55:29 (#jwrd) jfw: sstacks: what's the issue, you try to decrypt something from me, it prompts for passphrase and you can't satisfy it?
[18:20] jfw: the followup was going to be that yes, if you lose the key or passphrase then you've indeed lost anything that was solely encrypted to it.
[18:21] jfw: along with whatever value you'd accumulated in that identity.
[18:22] sstacks: indeed
[18:24] jfw: on the bright side, good to learn that lesson now while it's cheap, and glad to hear the extra practice was helpful.
[18:32] sstacks: whaack: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/4w33d34njh
[18:33] sstacks: jfw: lesson learnt.
[18:33] jfw: and in exciting news, initial implementation of full coin state tracking for gbw-node is done, scan speed increased 3x through database tuning, and my initial scan is past block 629000. It's looking to be around a 4-day total process, running on a jwrd thinkpad.
[18:34] whaack: jfw: nice, i happen to be reading that article at the moment you sent this
[18:35] jfw: database is 22 gigs so far, maybe it ends up at 35, still pretty light relative to the overall blockchain.
[18:48] whaack: jfw: mhm, bitcoindexplorer.com's db is essentially the entire blockchain copied once over, with even more spaced used for indexes, last time i checked the two dbs combined were 1.1TB or so
[18:52] jfw: not even that bad, considering, but certainly does bump up the SSD capacity requirement.
[18:53] jfw: whaack: did you work out anything to deal with reorgs, by the way?
[18:55] jfw will be back at class time
[18:55] whaack: yes, i did
[18:57] dorion: whaack, heck yes !
[19:02] whaack: since bitcoind already has its own reorg logic, gbw needs to only undo the most recent scans and rescan whenever it notices that the prev_hash of an incoming block does not match the hash of the block at the tip of its chain
[19:03] whaack: i have a function remove_top_block, the comment explaining that function may prove useful if you decide to implement your own version of rollbacks, see here http://welshcomputing.com/paste/f7xvnuuxs9
[19:06] whaack: it's fitting that i'm reading your discovery of python's sqlite module having a, em, dubious implementation of transactions and seeing that i specifically noted "# The following must be done all in one transaction:' at the top of that function.
[19:11] whaack: dorion: do you want to schedule a time in the near future for discussing the class as we mentioned on heathen channels? at first i had thought that a call may be nicer, but the chat in the logs would probably prove way more useful
[19:13] whaack: i'm also sorry that our communication went to that medium, even if briefly, here's to avoiding that in the future in accordance with one of your recent articles
[19:14] dorion: whaack, I would like to have that discussion.
[19:16] dorion: I'm open to having it in the logs, but am also open to having a call too. perhaps the log discussion can focus on the training and the call can be more relaxed like we're talking over a hookah. both have their place.
[19:16] whaack: sure, let's do both!
Day changed to 2023-04-13
[00:38] jfw: sstacks, whaack: noticed I fell behind on updating the progress chart so I've done that now, with a few gaps where memory doesn't quite serve re who had got through readings and such.
[00:39] jfw: let me know if anything looks amiss.
[00:41] jfw: the latest recording is up as well. I will begin cycling out the oldest ones as I upload new ones (because that server is tight on disk space), so be sure you've saved anything you want saved.
[00:44] jfw: last week's skip pushed the expected completion to June 20, though sounded like sstacks' travels May 4-20 may add another week or two.
[00:45] sstacks: jfw: thanks for the hard work. Ill try to connect during the trip. Although I think i wont have quality time for homework nor labs (if any)
[01:22] jfw: sstacks: you're welcome. and ok, I'll have a look at what's coming up but perhaps best to just skip the 9th and 16th since you're both traveling anyway
[01:24] jfw: what about bringing a thinkpad and practicing the basic unix & vim? perhaps using it to keep a travelogue file
[15:06] jfw: whaack, sstacks: let's go ahead and push back the May 9th and 16th sessions; but perhaps (he says with undying optimism) we can keep some practice going in the background
[15:07] jfw: sstacks: dorion told me you had an ubuntu laptop so perhaps that'd be better to bring on the trip, since it has both the CLI environment and you can use it for more routine things too
[16:20] whaack: morning all
[16:20] whaack: dorion, let me know when is a good time / date to have the irc
[16:21] whaack: (i was going to say ...to have the irc chat, but realized that was redundant)
[16:28] dorion: whaack, I can do this afternoon at 20:00 utc.
[16:29] sstacks: jfw: bringing the laptop to the trip is a good idea. Will do!
[16:29] sstacks: good morning btw
[16:29] sstacks: :)
[16:29] whaack: hm, does 20:30 or 21:00 utc work? i will be getting back from lunch at roughly 20:00 utc and may be late
[16:29] dorion: 21:00 then.
[16:30] whaack: perfect
[16:30] jfw: sstacks: mornin', sounds good.
[16:32] whaack: i'm finishing my read through of http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/smartening-up-gbw-node/ , there's lots to grok there
[16:33] jfw: :)
[16:52] dorion: jwm, keeping your head above water there mate ?
[17:02] whaack: jfw: i must admit i'm still scratching my head after reading the sqlite troubles for the third time or so
[17:03] jfw: whaack: about what part?
[17:08] whaack: https://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/smartening-up-gbw-node/?b=if+you+want&e=try , here you set isolation_level to None, which you say should get you autocommit mode, however a few lines down you say that 'since the second creation still wasn't committed, it should implicitly roll back too" But since you are supposed to be in autocommit code shouldn't the creation *not* rollback?
[17:10] jfw: even before that implicit rollback on close, there's the explicit one which evidently worked (because the second 'create table' worked)
[17:11] jfw: the key is in what 'autocommit mode' means because as I discovered it's not always the same thing
[17:13] jfw: but basically, what it's supposed to mean is that data modification (insert/update/delete) applies immediately i.e. without requiring an explicit commit, unless you explicitly begin a transaction (as I did in the live example)
[17:13] jfw: i.e. it's a convenience for interactive usage without getting in the way when you need explicit transactions.
[17:18] jfw: perhaps note also my later correction to the definition of 'isolation_level'.
[17:22] whaack: okay, still groking but i think i understand a little better, my next question is you mention that '...outside of this, it always autocommits and there's no way to change this.' so you're saying sqlite (via the shell, for example) will always immediately commit a statement that is not explicitly preceded with a begin statment
[17:22] jfw: correct; as soon as you 'commit', it returns to autocommit.
[17:24] jfw: so how is it that transactions work correctly in gbw-node despite its never doing a 'begin'? because the python interface sometimes injects an implicit 'begin' to emulate a manual commit mode.
[17:25] whaack: and the python module has a 'poor emulation' of a manual mode, so the default settings of the python module is to have manual commit mode, i.e. any data modification statement implicitly calls a .begin(), but waits for a .commit() . However this emulation is buggy, and for example does not work for the create table command
[17:26] jfw: exactly - though, there is no .begin() method, basically api python exposes to the developer doesn't admit the concept of autocommit mode, so they're stuck emulating.
[17:29] jfw: and they get all self-important about it, "we need to know whether a transaction is open" and it interferes with executing 'begin' directly as a sql command.
[17:31] jfw: thus, isolation_level=None simply means 'get out of the way and leave sqlite to work as documented', which means you'll need explicit begins but at least they'll work.
[17:36] jfw: if it helps, there's two levels of comprehension to go for here - the first is that "yeah, it's a tangled mess but here's the cleanest cut to remove the tangles altogether"; the second is to follow exactly what's going on which was what I needed to understand what my existing code actually meant.
[17:38] jfw: and to bring it back to http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#6781 , the current transaction usage works fine, but that's because it's only doing the simple stuff that the python emulation supports.
[17:38] sourcerer: 2023-04-12 19:06:17 (#jwrd) whaack: it's fitting that i'm reading your discovery of python's sqlite module having a, em, dubious implementation of transactions and seeing that i specifically noted "# The following must be done all in one transaction:' at the top of that function.
[17:38] whaack: jfw: alright thanks for your help, i think i have a much better understanding now of the problems you've described
[17:38] jfw: so it was the "easy" solution in the short term but got in the way of growth.
[17:39] jfw: cool
[21:00] whaack: dorion: ready when you are
[21:17] whaack: dorion: i'm guessing something came up, or the last minute plan didn't make it to the calendar
[21:20] whaack: it may be for the better, my hands unfortunately are having one of those days where typing a sentence causes a lot of exhaustion, let's push it back to another time
[21:38] jwm: I am building an Ark - all breeding pairs are welcome
[21:38] jwm: sadly it disqualifies both the dogs i live with
[22:11] jfw: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/fixpoint-is-moving-in-domain-name-space/
[22:11] dorion: whaack, so sorry, I got wrapping in trying to finish off an article.
[22:11] jfw: jwm: haha, quite so.
[22:11] dorion: jwm, glad to hear you're still afloat.
[22:12] jfw: whaack: and the buddy system failed on account of my article there I reckon.
[22:12] dorion: jfw, hey it works.
[22:28] jfw: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/fixpoint-is-moving-in-domain-name-space/ - updated for that s/system/swamp/ and its reference.
Day changed to 2023-04-14
[02:13] dorion: whaack, how about monday at 17:00 utc ?
[03:45] dorion: http://dorion-mode.com/2023/04/syntax-destruction-is-the-fountainhead-of-fiat-propaganda/
[03:54] jfw: whaack, your method here looks a bit convoluted but probably fine. for my case, it'll be a bit different because I'm deleting the outputs when they're spent; so to roll back a block I can't just delete the data it added, I have to restore what it removed, which probably means re-fetching the block.
[03:54] sourcerer: 2023-04-12 19:03:23 (#jwrd) whaack: i have a function remove_top_block, the comment explaining that function may prove useful if you decide to implement your own version of rollbacks, see here http://welshcomputing.com/paste/f7xvnuuxs9
Day changed to 2023-04-17
[16:25] dorion: whaack, is 17 utc going to work for you today ?
[17:08] dorion: whaack, lets aim for the same time wednesday. sstacks, I'd like to include you on this chat too. basically, my goal is to check in with you on how the training is going. how well it's meeting the expectations you had going into it. how you think your effort has been and how you think it could improve. what we could do to help improve the experience for you.
[17:33] whaack: dorion: wednesday sounds good. sorry for the late responses, my hands have been giving me lots of problems lately and this has made me reluctant to touch a computer
[17:35] whaack: found this msg deep in the log from mp http://btcbase.org/log/2014-05-28#692916
[17:38] whaack: so my main plan now is to refocus on improving my typing technique (perhaps setting up a camera to record + review) , stop clucking at my dumbphone , and pray that my surgery didn't fuck my hands more and similarly pray that i'm young enough for my body to figure out how to heal itself should i stop incurring more dammage
[17:39] whaack: caai ^^
[17:54] dorion: whaack, thanks, I understand buddy.
[17:59] dorion: please share what you find for typing practice. I for one find myself too reliant on the right thumb for the space bar and left pinky for shift. this is evident in the wear on my daskeyboard.
[18:00] dorion: whaack, for cutting habit of clicking and clucking on dumbphone, I've got anbox running on an ubuntu toilet box for the android swamps.
[20:06] dorion: heya, sstacks, welcome back.
[20:07] sstacks: dorion: thanks bro
[20:20] dorion: are you available to chat then on wednesday at noon Panama time ?
[20:20] sourcerer: 2023-04-17 17:08:47 (#jwrd) dorion: whaack, lets aim for the same time wednesday. sstacks, I'd like to include you on this chat too. basically, my goal is to check in with you on how the training is going. how well it's meeting the expectations you had going into it. how you think your effort has been and how you think it could improve. what we could do to help improve the experience for you.
[20:22] sstacks: dorion: i think im available, yes
[20:36] dorion: ok, sounds good. if for some reason you can't make it at that time, you're free to catch up asynchronously afterwards with your thoughts.
[21:18] sstacks: dorion: ok fren, most probably I will make it live.
[21:34] dorion: ofi
[21:39] whaack: dorion: thanks for the tip, i may look into that (first step would be switching off my crapple phone)
[21:44] whaack: re your typing habits, i think a general theme is you want to add variation , you don't always need to use the same finger for the same job. for the left shift there's lots to do, one is to use the lonely right shift button, another is to use your ring finger instead of your pinky, that gives you 4 ways to hit the shift key
[21:48] dorion: whaack, sounds like hands would get twisted into inefficiency though. what I was thinking was retraining for more balance. like the right shift when capitalizing the keys on the left side. and aiming for 50/50 usage of thumbs on the space bar.
[21:50] whaack: as for spacebar the obvious tip is to use your left thumb to cut the load for the right in half, i have trouble alternating between words, i use left thumb for a while and then right thumb for a while
[21:52] whaack: yes i agree that you should use the right shift when capitalizng qwertasdfgzxvcb and left when capitalizing yuiophjklnm, i also overuse the left side
[21:53] whaack: the very important movement to avoid is typing while ulnar/radial deviated, your wrist needs to be straight whenever you apply force with your finger
[21:53] dorion: yeah, it's just so subconscious now in my normal flow, I don't know how much I'm using the right thumb, but I know I'm using it more. I just need to do some pure practice to work on form because when I'm writing to think, the thoughts are at the forefront and the unconscious, not ideal/balanced form takes over.
[21:54] dorion: alright, I'll take note of it and keep it mind, but I think/feel like I have good wrist posture.
[21:55] whaack: i caught myself ulnar deviating whenever i click backspace with my right hand, and ctrlshiftalt with my left hand
[22:04] whaack: may be worth just paying attention to specifically those movements , as they are common for everyone
[22:06] whaack: i learned from surfing that it's really easy to have the misconception you have good technique, only to have the delusion revealed upon watching a video of yourself
[22:08] whaack: not saying that you don't have good wrist posture, but it's hard to know if you don't have a good feedback system, and i can tell from personal experience that you don't want your body to develop that feedback system for you, lol
[22:09] whaack: i think the crux of why carpal tunnel / rsi is such a bitch o an ailment is specifically because the feedback you get is very difficult to decode
[22:10] whaack: you don't necessarily feel the pain at the precise time you perform the stressing movement, you feel it hours later
[22:52] jfw: a key feature and/or adaptation of all the best plagues, that; and hours later is still a plenty tight feedback loop compared to some of them
[23:00] jfw: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#6872 - some bits I picked up there, at least for a conventional keyboard, are to use the outer palm (the joint at the base of the pinky) for control; for alt, curling the thumb under the palm, though I guess usually I just reach down with a ring finger.
[23:00] sourcerer: 2023-04-17 21:55:50 (#jwrd) whaack: i caught myself ulnar deviating whenever i click backspace with my right hand, and ctrlshiftalt with my left hand
[23:05] jfw: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#6864 - sounds like the same thing to me since the emulator would be the thing to switch to. and yeah, the cluckscreen Devices seem far worse to me than the computers; even just holding one for half an hour or so to read a conversation, I feel my fingers getting stiff. especially if they have the various sensitive side buttons to
[23:05] sourcerer: 2023-04-17 21:39:39 (#jwrd) whaack: dorion: thanks for the tip, i may look into that (first step would be switching off my crapple phone)
[23:05] jfw: avoid.
[23:07] jfw: worth noting on the emulator, I gather it even works with whatsapp to get around the "must have phone connected to use web interface!!"
Day changed to 2023-04-18
[02:27] whaack: jfw: whatsapp got rid of the phone must be connected thing a copule months back
[16:46] whaack: jfw, answer to reading qs: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/dxa64u39it and v.pl write up: http://welshcomputing.com/paste/agjh4gq3az
[18:32] jfw: thx whaack.
[18:34] jfw: dorion: I'm noticing that 1) gbw-signer does a random shuffle on outputs only, not inputs (which are taken in the order given in the table, as intended, but could certainly be shuffled after that); and 2) it could simply sort both lists instead of shuffling. leaks nothing besides perhaps "using gbw-signer or same algorithm"
[18:35] jfw: ie sort by the txid, index, address etc.
[18:36] jfw: iirc I went with a shuffle just following satoshi tradition
[18:47] dorion: fyi, sstacks shared in sidebar he has a fever, but doesn't want to push the class back, so go ahead with out him and he'll catch up with the video.
[18:48] jfw: alright.
[18:49] dorion: jfw, you're talking about in the transaction building algo, what it constructs to sign ?
[18:49] jfw: yes
[18:51] dorion: jfw, the shuffling seems fine to me.
[18:57] jfw: but shuffle the inputs too?
[18:58] jfw: can't see any reason not to, really; relays can reorder either list themselves too, one of the 'malleability' vectors
[18:58] dorion: you mean, operator still orders by hand in outputs file, but when gbw-signer goes to construct it shuffles so as the outside world doesn't know the order of the outputs file ?
[18:59] jfw: yep
[18:59] dorion: sounds good to me.
[19:00] jfw: (actually not completely sure re malleability - would need to check the signature hashing details)
[20:05] whaack: sorry to hear that sstacks, feel better
[22:57] jfw: whaack, sstacks: I've installed gscm and gbw-signer on the training server so you can play with them and/or complete the homework there if you can't get the install working on a local system.
[22:58] jfw: (the design of the lesson was that everyone gets it installed as guided practice during class, but whaack is still away from home base and sstacks is out sick.)
[23:05] jfw: whaack: as I mentioned, since writing http://jfxpt.com/2022/fixed-width-bit-fiddling-tuneups-for-gbw-signer/ I got further on propagating the constant time operations up the layers to the elliptic curve operations & ECDSA ...
[23:06] jfw: the sticking points were 1) how to do constant-time modular inversion, which currently uses the "modified euclidean algorithm", basically an extension of the classic gcd, which is simple but takes an unpredictable number of steps
[23:06] jfw: and 2) even leaving that as is, way too slow overall.
[23:08] jfw: er, that's the "extended euclidean algorithm", 2.107 from chapter 2 in the handbook of applied cryptography.
[23:10] jfw: from where I left it, there were various ways to go about constant time inversion, basically algorithms that would eventually converge to the right answer after an unknown but bounded number of steps, and slight improvements have been made by proving tighter bounds
[23:12] jfw: but that all looked rather messy & difficult to follow, at best; furthermore I'm not sure if it's even required if you take the route of transforming the EC operations, such as using the Montgomery form. so that was my next thing to look into.
[23:14] jfw: if you're interested in helping here, the approach would be to get up to speed on that and scout ahead for me, basically find how does it work, what are good references on it, what can I expect from it, or other alternatives worth trying
[23:19] jfw: the current code if I recall the terminology would be said to be using 'affine form' coordinates ie plain x & y that directly satisfy the curve equation, the straightforward implementation of the algorithms shown in the standards, but openssl & others all went with fancier versions for performance.
[23:22] jfw: note that montgomery form is something different from a montgomery curve or a montgomery ladder.
[23:23] jfw: (we're stuck with a Weierstrass curve due to the choice of secp256k1.)
[23:26] jfw: basically, modular inversion is the equivalent of long division in this algebra, and in the naive affine form, you're dividing by a different denominator on each step of the scalar multiplication, so you can't usefully precompute anything and it completely dominates the computation time.
[23:27] jfw: so the trick is something like, transform into a different coordinate space, do the scalar mult there where you don't need the division on each step, then just do it once at the end.
[23:27] jfw: Jacobian coordinates were another variety that came up.
Day changed to 2023-04-19
[16:19] whaack: caai: how goes it ?
[16:52] dorion: caai, are you back from the hunt ?
[16:53] dorion: howdy whaack.
[16:53] dorion: http://dorion-mode.com/2023/04/2nd-quarter-free-throws-slightly-adapted/
[16:54] whaack: heya dorion
[16:56] dorion: how're the wrists today ?
[16:57] dorion: you ready to chat ?
[16:57] whaack: they're mediocore, but yes ready to chat nonetheless
[16:58] dorion: alright, so you're about half way through the training, how do you think it has gone so far ?
[17:02] whaack: i think it's going alright, i think the most useful part of the course (for me) so far has been going over the trilema articles and discussing them. the unix training has been more of a review for me, as long as a lot of the other material in the class, i don't think i get too much from that part, although it certainly doesn't hurt to refresh everything and go over any missing gaps i may have
[17:04] dorion: right, you entered in a realtively advanced state, were in the wot and young hands before us, studied cs and make your bread with it.
[17:05] dorion: how would you say it has measured up to the expectations you had when you signed up ?
[17:06] dorion: relatively*
[17:08] whaack: i would say that it is very close to what i was expecting from the course, i knew that certain parts would be review for me. that said, there has been a good level of supplemental reading that allows me to challenge myself more during the parts of the course where i knew what was being taught relatively well
[17:08] dorion: good to hear.
[17:09] dorion: how do you think your effort has been in applying yourself ?
[17:11] whaack: that part i think has been abysmal , or at best scrapping by. it's true that i'm in quite the pickle with my hands, but i could be making better of the situation by doing more supplemental reading
[17:11] dorion: keeping in the context the traveling/surgery.
[17:12] whaack: i've found the homeworks to be on average 30mins of work, and instead of filling out the other 3.5 hours with other study i am just like 'ok, done!'
[17:12] whaack: (i think jfw mentioned at the beginning an expected 4 hours of hw a week)
[17:13] dorion: ok, well go for you to come clean with it. it's true reading doesn't stress the hands too much. though I will say now that I've knocked off the writing rust, reading is causing me to want to write to process what I'm reading.
[17:13] dorion: whaack, that 30mins includes the reading ?
[17:14] whaack: yes, it may be 45mins to an hour sometimes but the articles have been relatively short
[17:14] dorion: the homework is also defintitely a sore spot for us too. we what to had more unix exercises generally so n00bs can get more reps in.
[17:15] dorion: for you though, you could consider the scouting assignment jfw laid out above as homework moving forward.
[17:16] whaack: i think that would be a good idea. and maybe there could be more math theory on the side for future developers who are in the course and likewise don't need much more unix practice
[17:16] dorion: exactly.
[17:16] whaack: the first hw had a nice cryptography reading and i think that could be continued as optional hw
[17:16] dorion: good point.
[17:18] whaack: in either case i am very excited and happy with the courses related to the fuckgoats and jwrd products, specifically gbw-signer so far.
[17:19] dorion: that being said, I don't think piling on more reading and math alone is going to cut to the core of that abysmal effort, as you put it. you shared with me afk that yh was a very meaningful experience for you (as it was for us). as you know the core exercise was the weekly planning/reporting. and iirc, you
[17:19] dorion: and diana tailored to you to report daily activities in the log. what do you think about reactivating that habit here ?
[17:21] dorion: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#6947 -- cool, glad to read it !
[17:21] sourcerer: 2023-04-19 17:18:03 (#jwrd) whaack: in either case i am very excited and happy with the courses related to the fuckgoats and jwrd products, specifically gbw-signer so far.
[17:23] dorion: whaack, and keep in mind that given you're about to go on your euro holiday, it might be a stressfree time to establish the habit by reporting on the days events. it's not directly related to the class, but the important point is establishing the habit and who know what work you might be inspired to do with the habit in place.
[17:24] whaack: yes, i think that's a good idea, the thought of typing everyday worries me because of my hands, but i think the solution to that is just making workarounds work (text to speech , continued improvement with posture, whatever)
[17:24] dorion: plus, a lil micro blog you could mine for more detailed articles later.
[17:25] dorion: yeah, doesn't have to be a lot. here's an idea. on the days your hands are hurting, maybe you write with pen and paper instead, can report that you did that and then when you recover you can type it up.
[17:25] whaack: that sounds like a good plan
[17:26] dorion: ofi papi.
[17:27] dorion: whaack, I'm going to commit to doing it too in the log to start, might move to my blog quickly though, nicole style.
[17:27] dorion: start filling up that spiffy new category.
[17:27] whaack: sounds good , let's keep each other accountable.
[17:28] whaack: you're killing it with the blog articles lately :)
[17:28] dorion: thanks.
[17:28] dorion: I have a 7k word one that's almost done.. :-D
[17:28] whaack: oo lala
[17:31] dorion: alright, so to get you more grounded you have the daily reporting on actions of the day in #jwrd. to up the difficulty on the course and time spent you have the scouting jfw assigned. moving forward we'll look for advanced/optional homework to add for you and future students that enter in an advanced state.
[17:31] whaack: another note re the class - i think there are certain parts where it gets a bit into lecture mode. it's hard to be enganged during those points , it seems like they could be watched as a prerecorded video or just read in an article
[17:32] dorion: whaack, how would you say your shell scripting skills are ?
[17:32] whaack: they are okay, i guess not great but i don't see too much difference between command line skills and shell script skills
[17:33] dorion: good point, just occurred to me as more advanced unix material to add.
[17:33] whaack: i have to lookup always how to store variables and use for loops and when to use ""'s or not etc.
[17:34] dorion: whaack, that's good feedback. it's a struggle because there's lot of info to introduce and people enter at different levels. we are considering transitioning to pre-recorded videos, perhaps chopped up more. because teacher time is the bottleneck to scaling and it's not like jfw doesn't have a full plate even without considering the lessons.
[17:35] whaack: right, i understand it's tough, and it is nice to be able to interject and ask a question which you can't do. with prerecorded videos
[17:35] whaack: albert meyer ran a great number theory course at mit where he made these chunked up prerecorded videos
[17:36] dorion: right, the idea would still be to have the irc channel available where people could ask questions, just hard to promise response time when people are watching on their own schedule.
[17:36] whaack: i believe he taught one of the R/S/A's and the algo was discovered while he. was working with a student
[17:37] dorion: that being said, we'll likely consider lowering the cost for prerecorded videos.
[17:37] dorion: thatnks for tip on albert mayer, I'll check it out.
[17:37] whaack: i can't type up all the details of the course but it was probably the best course i've ever taken in a school/uni
[17:37] dorion: cool, yeah, I can look it up.
[17:38] whaack: it basically was pre recorded video -> online multiple choice for review of material -> team problem solving during class ( class ends when u solve all the problems )
[17:38] dorion: interesting.
[17:39] dorion: "you're not done when you feel tired, you're done when I say you're done, bitch."
[17:39] dorion: any other points for improvement that come to mind ?
[17:39] dorion: can let it marinate too and come back w/ the feedback.
[17:41] whaack: no that was everything i had in mind, i had been thinking about suggestions in anticipation of this meeting and i've expressed all i thought of
[17:41] whaack: if more comes up later ill let you know tho
[17:43] dorion: cool, thanks a lot.
[17:43] dorion: gavel, gavel, gavel.
[17:43] whaack: hehehe
[17:43] dorion will bbl.
[17:44] whaack: thx, ttyl!
[17:44] whaack: jfw: scouting seems like a good mission. will keep you posted
[18:58] jfw: whaack: from http://ztkfg.com/2021/06/the-rsi-logs/ it sounds like there was some level of background pain pretty much all the time with more acute episodes a couple times a month, is that still what it's like?
[19:02] jfw: and I see you had "a month of mostly resting without any improvement", the "mostly" coming up as a possible difference with the recommendations you linked
[19:02] sourcerer: 2023-04-17 17:35:32 (#jwrd) whaack: found this msg deep in the log from mp http://btcbase.org/log/2014-05-28#692916
[19:03] jfw: but sounds like identifying the stressors is the tough part
[19:04] whaack: yes that's still the case, with everything slightly increasing in intensity over time
[19:04] whaack: and yes maybe i need x time with absolutely 0 fucking stressors without any exception for the 'nerve alarm' to turn off, or something of that sort
[19:06] whaack: somewhere else he recommends hiring a kinestheologist to monitorr your movements , maybe worth to pay up for that
[19:06] jfw: same thread I think
[19:07] jfw: the handwriting idea seems interesting, if it doesn't trigger it too; you could then hire someone to transcribe, or take dictations, if the speech-to-text doesn't work adequately
[19:07] whaack: ah yes sorry
[19:07] whaack: i was trying speech to text today with 'talon', maybe i can improve it but it seems horrible, and a good way to injure your vocal chords
[19:08] whaack: #r10i10
[19:08] whaack: ^ talon's transcription of 'this message was written with talon'
[19:08] jfw: sounds about "open sores OCR" level.
[19:09] jfw: I remember seeing a 'pro' STT product in action in the 90s / early 2ks and it was awful, but I'd think they've improved and sometimes hear about people using them effectively
[19:11] whaack: yes, certainly open sores, siri's stt is much better
[19:11] whaack: siri is the apple product
[19:13] jfw: anyway, the idea is hopefully not to make it a permanent thing but just a way to try a full break without giving up activity altogether
[19:20] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#6927 - the article (re)reading & discussion has been one of the more challenging parts for me too (we've been adding more since last time, and the whole WoT lesson for example) so glad to hear it's been of value.
[19:20] sourcerer: 2023-04-19 17:02:27 (#jwrd) whaack: i think it's going alright, i think the most useful part of the course (for me) so far has been going over the trilema articles and discussing them. the unix training has been more of a review for me, as long as a lot of the other material in the class, i don't think i get too much from that part, although it certainly doesn't hurt to refresh everything and go o
[19:24] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#6936 - the effort on presenting your work, even as simple as the questions may have been on the assignments where we've given concrete deliverables, is noticeably low indeed
[19:24] sourcerer: 2023-04-19 17:12:40 (#jwrd) whaack: i've found the homeworks to be on average 30mins of work, and instead of filling out the other 3.5 hours with other study i am just like 'ok, done!'
[19:25] jfw: one of your very latest "sentences" for example: "As. A test, I successfully pressed the genesis of gbw-signer "
[19:29] jfw: improving the interactivity of the lessons, with homework as part of that, is an ongoing goal for us indeed
[19:31] jfw: whaack: sometimes "lecture mode" may reflect missing articles, it's true. did you have any lectures in mind as particularly un-engaging examples? I can then take a closer look via the recordings
[19:32] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#6968 - it's like the difference between live chat and writing articles.
[19:32] sourcerer: 2023-04-19 17:32:44 (#jwrd) whaack: they are okay, i guess not great but i don't see too much difference between command line skills and shell script skills
[19:33] jfw: yes you can convey the same information, but in one medium you have the ability and necessity to structure things better, and thus to build up more complexity.
[19:38] whaack: jfw: a possible plan re 'active full break' would be to take 3 months off the computer, sitting with a few math books, journaling maybe via hand. then upon returning i will need to be very careful to change my typing habits soas to not repeat the same mistakse
[19:39] whaack: that sentence is a yikes indeed
[19:41] whaack: iirc i think the gpg class was one where the lecture part went a little longer and the material was a bit dry
[19:49] jfw: that sounds like a good if luxurious break indeed
[19:50] jfw: then you at least learn for sure if the typing and/or guitar was the problem. ofc there's no way to stop ALL hand use nor do I think it would be helpful
[19:51] jfw: I can take a look at the gpg class then, thanks.
[19:52] jfw: gpg certainly has this problem of "yes there's a manual but it's so full of noise that I'll basically have to explain all the important parts myself"
[19:54] whaack: ive completely given up guitar and surfing for many months now, and drastically reduced my typing , but again no 'full, full, stop' and always doing dumb clucking all the wile
[19:54] jfw: aha
[19:57] jfw: on the reading side, dunno if this applies to you but I notice some people proceed by constantly tickling the mouse scroll wheel (or equivalent), rather than just hitting page-down once and leaving it be until the eyes reach end of screen.
[20:00] whaack: i switched to trackpads, not as fast as the mouse but much easier, and i use page down
[20:00] whaack: i used to spin the wheel, it's an unhealthy movement
Day changed to 2023-04-20
[03:47] dorion: http://dorion-mode.com/2023/04/im-not-from-there-but-its-where-i-was-born/
[04:17] caai: whaack: all is well. how are you? sure, we can discuss the matter here....
[04:17] caai: dorion: yes, i am back in panama.
[15:40] jfw: welcome back caai
[15:48] caai: jfw: danke, how are you?
[15:52] jfw: caai: a little under the weather but otherwise doing well
[15:57] jfw: (sore throat & tiredness; I reckon it's a bit of payback for time well spent out of the house but with too much to drink)
[16:04] jfw: a minor ailment nonetheless satisfyingly overcome was a betrayal by my DNS registrar, so I managed to move yet again to one whose site still works in my browser and still takes honest BTC; http://jfxpt.com/2023/fixpoint-is-moving-in-domain-name-space/ is the more visible effect of that project
[16:06] jfw: and I've been making and documenting big improvements to gbw-node, while pushing myself to pick back up a much smellier but necessary pile
[16:12] jfw: caai: jeff amazon failed me on the music theory text, sent me a similarly-shaped book on singing instead of Volume I - which in turn undercuts the value of the Volume II which was delivered correctly. and naturally, no way to even report the fuckup much less get it fixed. so dunno, maybe I'll check ebay or something
[16:41] dorion: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7031 -- I find the trackpads to hurt me. plus, it implies I'm using laptop keyboard rather than my das keyboard. kvm switch so I can stay on daskeyboard and one mouse has been a lifesaver for me. also, as jfw, noted, using the keyboard to scroll in chunks.
[16:41] sourcerer: 2023-04-19 20:00:36 (#jwrd) whaack: i switched to trackpads, not as fast as the mouse but much easier, and i use page down
[16:42] dorion: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7035 -- nice, buddy. will I be seeing you out tonight at teka ?
[16:42] sourcerer: 2023-04-20 04:17:36 (#jwrd) caai: dorion: yes, i am back in panama.
[20:30] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#6885 - not entirely, it seems; [https://faq.whatsapp.com/834124628020911/?cms_platform=web
[20:30] sourcerer: 2023-04-18 02:27:00 (#jwrd) whaack: jfw: whatsapp got rid of the phone must be connected thing a copule months back
[20:30] jfw: >.<
[20:30] jfw: To log in to WhatsApp on WhatsApp Web, WhatsApp Desktop, or Portal, you need to use your phone to scan the QR code.
[20:31] jfw: how to 'scan qr code' with emulator is also unclear.
[20:44] jfw: actually, how to 'scan qr code' from phone is also unclear given "WhatsApp does not have access to your camera. To enable access, tap Settings and turn on Camera."
[22:38] whaack: dorion: checking in, hands are quite bad today so going to limit my typin, i hired a scribe today to offload work. otherwise planning diets/exercises/etc
[23:15] dorion: whaack, sounds productive considering circumstances. 1) I worked out this morning. 2) ended up chatting w/ a bunch of people throughout the day about the latest article in comments and various chat networks. 3) had a call with an old friend/potential business partner this morning. 4) you down with otc ? yeah, you know me. 5) sent an internship proposal to the father of a local kid who's asking for
[23:15] dorion: it. 6) got dragged into fucking around w/ the forced <stike>update</strike> ass fuck whatscrapp just mandated, feels like they sawed my brain in half w/ new UI and doesn't look like the only way out of it is not using it anymore or waiting until they unfuck it. 7) set a deadline for a deliverable to diana_coman. 8) handled some personal admin tasks.
[23:15] dorion: what I didn't do that I said I'd do : 1. work on gbw-node lesson in preparation for next week.
[23:16] dorion: so I will do that first thing tomorrow.
[23:16] dorion: 9) above is I set some meetings for next week.
[23:18] dorion: about to go to a expat version of a yeyecita party. don't have the highest hopes for finding new people, since a lot of sheeple in the group, but some close friends will be there, e.g. fausto (who you met at junto), so will at least see him. staying sober because it feels like the dmt is still coursing through my veins and I want to keep riding that wave.
[23:19] dorion: ~fin~
[23:19] dorion: hasta manyana manito.
[23:20] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7055 -- <strike>test</strike> , cause I see I typo'd the initial one.
[23:20] sourcerer: 2023-04-20 23:15:08 (#jwrd) dorion: it. 6) got dragged into fucking around w/ the forced <stike>update</strike> ass fuck whatscrapp just mandated, feels like they sawed my brain in half w/ new UI and doesn't look like the only way out of it is not using it anymore or waiting until they unfuck it. 7) set a deadline for a deliverable to diana_coman. 8) handled some personal admin tasks.
[23:21] dorion: wouldn't have mattered anyways apparently, shrug.
[23:21] dorion: ciao.
[23:59] jfw: dorion: indeed, the irc content which is arbitrary text is properly escaped for the html context in the web view.
Day changed to 2023-04-21
[00:00] jfw: incidentally I prefer <del> to <strike> - shorter and comes with the corresponding <ins> too
[00:02] jfw: indeed whatsapp seems to deliberately filter at each possible occasion for the clueless
[00:04] jfw: with one instance being that it maximizes the costs of interfacing with it in any stable predictable way
[00:05] jfw: (take that sqlite storage backend you found ; in a short-term view, that might be a powerful thing to build on. but what's to stop them from pushing a protocol update that completely changes it.)
[00:06] jfw: dorion: I thought yeyecitos were kids?
[12:46] jfw: apparently mysql took down their 5.6 reference manual, because that's totally what you do.
[12:53] jfw: and I'd tried to download it previously, but only found in .info or .pdf formats, no html.
[14:58] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7040 -- very good. last time i saw you, you mentioned that this task was moving up on your priority list. good to see it come to completion.
[14:58] sourcerer: 2023-04-20 16:04:02 (#jwrd) jfw: a minor ailment nonetheless satisfyingly overcome was a betrayal by my DNS registrar, so I managed to move yet again to one whose site still works in my browser and still takes honest BTC; http://jfxpt.com/2023/fixpoint-is-moving-in-domain-name-space/ is the more visible effect of that project
[15:03] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7042 -- that is too bad. i imagine it was a 3rd party seller. i have found a way to return items to amazon if you wish to give it a try. you can print the return
[15:03] sourcerer: 2023-04-20 16:12:37 (#jwrd) jfw: caai: jeff amazon failed me on the music theory text, sent me a similarly-shaped book on singing instead of Volume I - which in turn undercuts the value of the Volume II which was delivered correctly. and naturally, no way to even report the fuckup much less get it fixed. so dunno, maybe I'll check ebay or something
[15:06] caai: *you can print the return paper and put it on the orginal box. then send it to someone you know in the u.s. (flordia preferably) via (https://www.correospanama.gob.pa/) in a second, outer box. they are the least expensive option i have discovered.
[15:11] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7045 -- yes! i was unaware there an event last night at teka...
[15:11] sourcerer: 2023-04-20 16:42:37 (#jwrd) dorion: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7035 -- nice, buddy. will I be seeing you out tonight at teka ?
[15:23] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7066 - aha.
[15:23] sourcerer: 2023-04-20 23:59:43 (#jwrd) jfw: dorion: indeed, the irc content which is arbitrary text is properly escaped for the html context in the web view.
[15:24] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7070 -- right.
[15:24] sourcerer: 2023-04-21 00:05:31 (#jwrd) jfw: (take that sqlite storage backend you found ; in a short-term view, that might be a powerful thing to build on. but what's to stop them from pushing a protocol update that completely changes it.)
[15:27] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7071 -- it's just diminutive, not necessarily child. like if you say, "yeyecita, saca la rakataca que tu llevas por dentro" doesn't mean you're talking to a ninya.
[15:27] sourcerer: 2023-04-21 00:06:27 (#jwrd) jfw: dorion: I thought yeyecitos were kids?
[15:27] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7072 -- ffs.
[15:27] sourcerer: 2023-04-21 12:46:41 (#jwrd) jfw: apparently mysql took down their 5.6 reference manual, because that's totally what you do.
[15:28] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7078 -- good tip, got it bookmarked.
[15:28] sourcerer: 2023-04-21 15:06:43 (#jwrd) caai: *you can print the return paper and put it on the orginal box. then send it to someone you know in the u.s. (flordia preferably) via (https://www.correospanama.gob.pa/) in a second, outer box. they are the least expensive option i have discovered.
[15:28] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7079 -- there's a festival over in panama pacifico this weekend, will probably check it out tomorrow afternoon/evening. you game ?
[15:29] sourcerer: 2023-04-21 15:11:25 (#jwrd) caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7045 -- yes! i was unaware there an event last night at teka...
[20:48] caai: dorion: sure. i'm in
[20:49] jfw: #jwrd: where the party is at or at least where it's discovered.
[22:50] jfw: caai: I just met a fellow at the music shop who's playing classic rock tomorrow night, 10:30pm or so. Voodoo Lounge in Marbella. asi
[22:56] jfw: and since they fail at communicating their own location, it looks to be the street of Le Petit Paris off Calle 53, nearly across from same.
[23:11] jfw: and an event an amigo sent me for May 17-18, might be worth checking out. probably a lot of corporate/gov types chasing their green checkboxes but maybe someone's hungry for the real thing
[23:46] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7091 - this one I gather
[23:46] sourcerer: 2023-04-21 15:28:59 (#jwrd) dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7079 -- there's a festival over in panama pacifico this weekend, will probably check it out tomorrow afternoon/evening. you game ?
Day changed to 2023-04-22
[01:51] dorion: whaack, for today's report : I woke up and walked through the barrio w/ jfw. I was pretty much consumed w/ chatting across various apps all day w/ people. the most interesting exchange was in a panama group w/ a guy who now lives in medellin. said he bought at $3 in 2011. the conversation was mainly me dissecting his talk of hw wallets being so so secure. I wouldn't be bad to publish, but fishing
[01:51] dorion: it out of signal is gonna be a pita. the chatting was mainly text, but a couple of calls too. I spent a couple hours walking through the market at cinco de mayo at dusk. I didn't make progress on next week's lesson, again. so that has to go tomorrow.
[15:09] jfw: dorion: you also did some blog tweaking following a poke from me about a technical oddity (undelivered pingbacks seemingly ending up in recurring bursts of 400 Bad Request in the access log), though you didn't seem to register what I was asking about it later and wandered off.
[15:09] jfw: and I happily enabled your procrastination by doing likewise on the dovecot.
[15:18] jfw: and I also missed some responses apparently. http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7076 - nope,
[15:18] sourcerer: 2023-04-21 15:03:45 (#jwrd) caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7042 -- that is too bad. i imagine it was a 3rd party seller. i have found a way to return items to amazon if you wish to give it a try. you can print the return
[15:18] jfw: "Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC"
[15:20] jfw: with this weird return address, "warehouse dealssignatureFreeExportCountries, 700 Westport Parkway, FOrt Worth, TX"
[15:20] jfw: they don't seem to know it's for export though, as they've been applying the florida sales tax.
[15:22] jfw: to return this one they demand it by the 28th, so it doesn't seem worth the try, but thanks for the correos tip and I might try it if there's a higher value thing
[15:23] jfw: dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7085 - got it!
[15:23] sourcerer: 2023-04-21 15:27:11 (#jwrd) dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7071 -- it's just diminutive, not necessarily child. like if you say, "yeyecita, saca la rakataca que tu llevas por dentro" doesn't mean you're talking to a ninya.
[15:27] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7095 -- maybe we can check it out after panama pacifico. we'll see how we feel at that point.
[15:27] sourcerer: 2023-04-21 22:50:09 (#jwrd) jfw: caai: I just met a fellow at the music shop who's playing classic rock tomorrow night, 10:30pm or so. Voodoo Lounge in Marbella. asi
[15:28] jfw: caai: we're uncertain of the situation on tickets for that fest, sounded like possibly you can't buy on site but some sources were showing sold out
[15:29] caai: jfw: i see
[15:30] caai: we could devise another plan
[15:31] jfw: panama pacifico is nice and all but tbh I wasn't that attracted by the festival's marketing
[15:31] jfw: even though I'm probably *more* anti-plastic than the people pushing the shopping bags, as regards my own environment :)
[15:34] caai: i am out of the loop in regards to hotspots for a replacement location? thoughts? i am sure dorion has some ideas ....
[15:34] jfw: I'll ask
[15:35] caai: de acuerdo
[15:36] caai: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7106 -- great. even easier to return then.
[15:36] sourcerer: 2023-04-22 15:18:56 (#jwrd) jfw: "Sold by: Amazon.com Services LLC"
[15:37] caai: if you so desire. the cost is around $10 if i am not mistaken
[15:39] jfw: caai: robinson said it looked like you can indeed buy tickets, just need to create an account on mieventos and then credit card or yappy. if you want to do that for us we're in
[15:40] jfw: would aim to arrive around sunset
[15:41] caai: i don't think i want to play their game by creating an account, credit card, etc....
[15:41] jfw: exactly haha
[15:41] caai: haha
[15:51] dorion: not sure about the pp thing, but now I'm seeing there's anothe music festival on the steps of the canal administration building today from 330-930. not seeing anything about tickets, maybe a better bet.
[16:17] caai: we could give it a try. if for some reason we can't get in, we can just go somewhere else ...... no big deal
[16:34] jfw: works for me
[16:39] dorion: fausto said he'd scoop for us for panama pacifico.
Day changed to 2023-04-23
[18:11] dorion: hey whaack, still warm the blood that courses your veins ?
[18:14] dorion: I missed yesterday so lettuce not dither in catching up : so friday night at sunset I took the subway to plaza cinco de mayo to get out a bit and explore. I've taken the subway less than a handful of times here and it was my first time in several years. glad I'm not taking it daily, but it was efficient and fun, going to use it more.
[18:21] dorion: later I chilled w/ a girl I've known about 6 months who I'm turning into assistant/intern, she's starting monday. after she left, I was chatting with another and the question of, "will I have to have an RSA key to be a person on the Internet ?" came up, which resulted text that can be repurposed into an article. didn't get to sleep till about 1am. saturday morning I took the metro back to cinco de
[18:21] dorion: mayo and walked over to mercado san felipe neri which is across from the fish market at the entrance of casco. it's a fairly big hall with 3 sections : fonda, frutas y vegetales, carnes. in each of the sections there are stalls with vendors slinging their wares. I had heard good things about it and expect I'll continue to use it where it makes sense over supermercados. train the girl on how to
[18:21] dorion: select and scoop.
[18:22] dorion: I made some headway on the lesson, but didn't finish. time was consumed in the kitchen, but I now have a store of leftovers that'll last a few days.
[18:27] dorion: at dusk we went to "revolution fest" , it was okay. glad we went and glad there are such options available here. I picked up a bottle of meade, locally brewed. we left at 830 to return to city, I suspect it picked up quite a bit later as it was going until 2am, but we had plans to watch the tank david title fight. teo (who you met) had a bbq at his family house. cool peeps, good food, decent
[18:27] dorion: cigars, entertaining fight and was capped off with a lil ping pong tourny. I only played teo and look Ls, but he owed me for beating him in tennis a while back.
[20:19] jfw: dorion: davis I think you mean?
[20:32] jfw: boxing, in any case.
[20:45] dorion: yeah, davis.
Day changed to 2023-04-24
[12:25] sstacks: hey guys.. im sorry for the absence. Had a rough last week, from monday to thursday. This week im 2x'ing my performance to get back on feet on everything.
[12:56] jfw: sstacks: hey, I was a bit off last week too, but back on my morning workouts today and it's set to be a strong week.
[12:56] jfw: let me know where you find that 2x excess capacity though because I could use me some of that!
[12:57] jfw: did you get through the recording yet?
[13:03] sstacks: Not yet. Will do today! 2x capacity is just focusing on pendings exclusively ! Hahaha
[13:18] sstacks: jfw: How come you were off last week? Health issues as well?
[13:40] dorion: yeah, he was under the weather.
[18:15] dorion: so this larry mcdonald fellow of the bear traps report is on me to buy buy buy booze from his wife's company, ViniSardi (which is rather good, ftr), and I ask him if they'd like to do a sponsorship/promotion for an event we're having next tuesday at a restaurante they've already worked with and he declines. shrug. maybe I
[18:15] dorion: shouldn't have said sponsorship and instead said promotion. I wasn't asking him for money, but figured it be good combined marketing.
[18:23] jfw: dorion: Wednesday you mean. and fwiw, I assumed sponsorship meant money, what else
[18:24] dorion: well, I clarified what I meant and now it might be back on.
[18:24] dorion: jfw, you're right ++ seems like my mind is running a little hot today !!!!
[18:25] jfw: dorion: well you can cool down at the beach on the weekend if you make it that far!
[18:26] dorion: poco a poco, paso a paso.
[19:20] sstacks: ..little less retarded
[19:42] sstacks: Hahahaha. #6 on the Warmup! So mean you guys!
Day changed to 2023-04-25
[00:49] jfw: sstacks: if it hurts, it's the good sort of hurt! the doctor needs to sterilize the wound after all.
[01:14] sstacks: jfw: that way I dont ever make the same mistake again!
[01:20] jfw: sstacks: the next most popular mistake might be to use no password at all for an important key - so if you lose your next one that way, the lols will be ready for that too!
[01:20] jfw: it's a hard life.
[01:22] sstacks: jfw: Hahahah indeed
[01:22] jfw: btw, to answer something I recall wondering about in a tangent last week - there's a couple sources of btc transaction malleability but ordering of inputs isn't one, nor ordering of outputs either, both are covered by the signature hash.
[01:24] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#6897 - http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#6901
[01:24] sourcerer: 2023-04-18 18:58:02 (#jwrd) jfw: can't see any reason not to, really; relays can reorder either list themselves too, one of the 'malleability' vectors
[01:24] sourcerer: 2023-04-18 19:00:04 (#jwrd) jfw: (actually not completely sure re malleability - would need to check the signature hashing details)
[01:41] jfw: http://jfxpt.com/bitcoin-reference-implementation/ updated with new release!
[15:53] jfw: whaack: from watching the last recording, I saw you had some questions on the philosophy that I was uncertain on answering (though isn't that how philosophers usually are?) ; if you still have them, it might help to write them out in here where we can bring more resources to it
[18:02] whaack: dorion: heart is still beating, but my right hand is still weak and i'm not sure i should be doing any typing at all, so im going to put a hold for now on irc checkins
[18:04] sstacks: whaack: hope you get better soon bro
[18:11] whaack: ty sstacks
[18:51] jfw: alright, so I'm guessing nobody will make it through the homework. I figure the agenda for today is 1) get sstacks up to speed with the gbw software installations; 2) demonstrate with him following along on an encrypted wallet setup, which we didn't get to last time; 3) likewise for gbw-node setup and operation.
[18:52] jfw: 3
[18:52] sstacks: jfw: you read my mind
[18:53] jfw: ^ disregard that lone '3', 'twas a misfire.
[18:55] sstacks: I also find, were through with Vimtutor. I did get the recommended reading at the end of the document to continue learning Vi
[18:55] jfw: oh the o'reilly book or whatever?
[18:56] jfw: I can't vouch for that but can't hurt to have around I'm sure.
[18:58] sstacks: Its Steve Oualline's
[18:58] sstacks: New Riders, publishing house
[19:15] jfw: alright, you can let us know how you find it.
[19:16] jfw: whaack, your mission for today can be to help get it done using sstacks' hands.
[19:18] whaack: sstacks: do you want to zoom and do the hw?
[19:18] whaack: send me a link and ill join
[19:19] jfw: I meant during class but if you can get the head start, so much the better.
[19:22] jfw: start by getting the signer installed on the *online* machine because we'll need it there to simplify practice of closing the loop between the two programs, though later it'll need to go on the offline, of course.
[19:30] sstacks: jfw: of course. https://isidore.co/CalibreLibrary/Oualline,%20Steve/Vi%20IMproved,%20Vim%20(5338)/Vi%20IMproved,%20Vim%20-%20Oualline,%20Steve.pdf
[19:31] sstacks: whaack: sure we can do that in about 45 minutes if its good for you
[19:36] jfw: sstacks, I meant how you find its content, as in helpful/interesting/whatever, if you get to it. but thanks for the link too.
[19:37] sstacks: jfw: uh oh, hahaha. Will do!
[19:37] whaack: sstacks: lets do it. 2.15
[19:37] whaack: dm me the zoom link
[19:42] jfw: or gpg-encrypt it to him!
[19:43] jfw: but perhaps we best keep it easy on his fingers.
[20:39] jfw: whaack: response to last week's homework
[20:53] sstacks: Couldnt make it back to the PC in time
[23:57] jfw: sstacks, whaack: in case it wasn't fully clear, the expectation on the transaction signing homework is to complete it as a team and submit one result.
Day changed to 2023-04-26
[19:53] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7159 - aha !
[19:53] sourcerer: 2023-04-24 19:20:15 (#jwrd) sstacks: ..little less retarded
[19:53] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7162 -- right, gotta have reminders and reinforcements of the carrots and the sticks.
[19:53] sourcerer: 2023-04-25 01:14:56 (#jwrd) sstacks: jfw: that way I dont ever make the same mistake again!
[19:56] dorion: http://jfxpt.com/2023/jwrd-logs-for-Apr-2023/#7172 -- alright, figured as much, but good to read it. how about this : instead of typing, you check in with a voice note to my in the swamps. I'll transcribe it/have it transacribed and entered into the log for your future reference.
[19:56] sourcerer: 2023-04-25 18:02:18 (#jwrd) whaack: dorion: heart is still beating, but my right hand is still weak and i'm not sure i should be doing any typing at all, so im going to put a hold for now on irc checkins
[19:58] dorion: the point of the exercise as I see it is to check in regularly so as to become more aware of what you're actually doing with your time and energy, so you can check how your actions are conforming w/ your words and work to better integrate them.
[19:58] dorion: by "you" there, I include "me".
[19:58] dorion: what do you think /
Day changed to 2023-04-27
[15:16] dorion: yeeeee. someone made it to the newwww seeeerverrrr.
[20:38] dorion: http://dorion-mode.com/2023/04/event-why-you-need-passwords-and-how-to-make-them-strong/
Day changed to 2023-04-28
[16:28] caai: whaack: i have used speech recognition software, such as 'Dragon', to do less typing to alleviate pain. I was surprised at its accuracy for typing and ability to follow commands such as; switch windows, open files, close files, save files, open programs, etc. I see that there is speech recognition software for Linux ......
[20:14] whaack: sstacks: when can u do the hw?
Day changed to 2023-04-29
[04:03] sstacks: whaack: my brother.. on monday most likely. Ill try on Sunday.. but weekends are very difficult for me
[04:03] sstacks: greetings to everyone.. cheer jfw and dorion
[17:48] dorion: hola desde playa blanca !