Day changed to 2020-10-01
[17:21] dorion: my trb node is at height 650789 ; "ProcessBlock" has resulted in nothing but ~30 BASTARD BLOCKS in the past ~4hrs, all from 208.94.240.42, though I ACCEPTED several blocks from that peer prior.
[18:45] jfw: week of oct 12 works for me except Wednesday I'll be relocating the office.
[18:47] jfw: dorion: seems to me that the main value we got from the Faraday cage experience is insight into what *doesn't* work, among which the "local metal shop" concept
[18:47] jfw: I have no doubt we could develop a working solution, but we don't exactly have one to offer presently that i can see.
[18:52] jfw: I'll tackle the questions in that article in its comments.
[18:53] dorion: jfw, thanks.
Day changed to 2020-10-11
[12:58] dorion: good afternoon cruciform.
[12:58] cruciform: s'up
[12:59] dorion: doin aight. you ? I'm seeing 11,359.59 on cmc
[12:59] cruciform: I'm seeing $11,359.59 as the price on coinmarketcap - looks good?
[12:59] cruciform: great
[12:59] dorion: lol.
[12:59] cruciform: just got back from gym; got a summary to write later - life's good! started hunting?
[13:01] cruciform will brb
[13:01] dorion: nice, I've not hunted yet. next weekend for sure.
[13:10] cruciform: cool - we don't really have that culture over here
[13:10] cruciform: so, shall we get the contract signed?
[13:18] dorion: yea, I have to move it over to the airgap and back. calling jfw to see if he's up yet.
[13:18] cruciform: ok
[13:22] dorion: no answer, he should be around soon though.
[13:23] cruciform: great - to confirm: this is the payment address 1Je81fN6KHso92oZaD9rzC2BnnNqLP42CF ?
[13:25] dorion: want to check back in an hour or so ? best to verify the payment address by verifying the signature on the contract. I don't think there's a high chance of being mitm right nao, but that's why we have the sigs to fall back on.
[13:25] cruciform: great - be back in an hour
[14:16] dorion: cruciform, I've received no word from jfw this morning. it's 10am here and he tends to be a night owl that sleeps into the late am.
[14:18] cruciform: dorion, ok; what d'ya wanna do?
[14:19] dorion: I'd like him to get logged up and to hear from him. what is your schedule like today ? are you available to check back in later this evening your time ?
[14:19] cruciform: yea, that's fine; I'll be in all day - ping me
[14:21] dorion: cool, thanks. as will I.
[14:21] dorion: cruciform, do you have any articles cooking ?
[14:28] cruciform: Working on the #o logs for 2nd Sept 2019; there's some interesting stuff relating to the BitBet miner cartel - http://ossasepia.com/2016/03/28/when-the-messenger-shoots-back/
[14:28] cruciform: how about you?
[14:33] dorion: nice. yeah, the bitbet history is indeed interesting.
[14:35] dorion: I have a few at various stages, going to decide today which to finish and publish first. I need to knock off the blogging rust.
[14:36] cruciform: yea - I find it gets easier once you're in the rhythm
[14:40] dorion will check back at 16:00 utc.
[18:08] jfw: "it's 10am here and he tends to be a night owl" << more to the point, I don't presently maintain reachability at all times so if someone needs me available in a rush it will help to let me know to expect that.
[18:09] jfw: I can get to the signing shortly.
[18:12] cruciform: jfw, noted; I'm free to sign as soon as you and dorion are
[19:03] jfw: warming up the keys and giving a final readthrough now.
[19:08] cruciform: jfw, dorion I forgot I need my password for signing stuff, which I don't have with me - is there another way I can sign-off on the contract?
[19:09] jfw: hah, brought keys but left brain behind?
[19:10] cruciform: something like that - I've never actually signed anything; don't need the password for decrypting
[19:11] jfw: well, it seems to me that since the contract is mainly there to hold us to delivery in exchange for payment in advance, it's good enough if we sign and receipt of the payment as specified is enough on your end
[19:11] cruciform: I agree
[19:12] cruciform: as I discussed with dorion, I've no issues with contents of the contract
[19:15] dorion: cruciform, hm, my gpg asks for my password when I decrypt. does yours have the password saved somehow ? anyways, I'm fine with signing and you can too at your convenience when you have the password.
[19:15] cruciform: the only thing we brought up was the handling of the 10% discount; we agreed it to be applied totally in reducing the price of the third module, rather than 10% off each module purchased individually
[19:16] cruciform: dorion, yea, I vaguelly recall setting up a password when I generated the keypair; I don't have to enter it when decrypting - only signing
[19:16] cruciform: I've got it written down somewhere, but not to hand
[19:16] jfw: whew, just found my serial cable; thought it was going to be my turn to be embarrassed!
[19:17] jfw: possibly the encryption subkey is unencrypted
[19:17] jfw: (re passwords)
[19:17] cruciform: it was generated via GPA in Ubuntu, if that sheds any light
[19:19] jfw: more like sheds darkness, heh. could be any kind of nonsense that ubuntu cooked up on top of actual-gpg
[19:20] dorion: yeah, for the future discount it'd be ($7200 * 0.9)-$360 = $6,120 worth of btc (at that future price).
[19:21] cruciform: dorion, makes sense
[19:21] dorion: cool.
[19:22] dorion: cruciform, you may want to try to change the password on your gpg key sooner rather than later to something you actually know/have saved.
[19:23] cruciform: yea, I've made a note to get that sorted as soon as possible, thanks
[19:23] dorion: good luck.
[19:24] cruciform: I may need it :p
[19:26] dorion: there's only so much one can do, especially if it requires the current password to change to a new one.
[19:27] cruciform: dorion, yea - I'd totally forgotten about it, given that deedbot only requires decrypting
[19:28] dorion: there is a thread in #ossasepia where thimbronion and diana_coman discuss his case.
[19:28] cruciform: cheers - I'll have a look for it
[19:29] cruciform: I'm reasonably sure I've got it written down somewhere, so fingers crossed
[20:12] jfw: I'm making a few minor changes e.g. consistent pluralization of "Consultants", clarifying the expiration clause, and noting that client's acceptance is based on issuance of the settlement transaction.
[20:13] cruciform: jfw, sounds good
[20:23] jfw: looks like gpg clearsigning is even jankier than I realized: it strips trailing whitespace somewhere in the process - probably for the input to the hash - but not in the output file.
[20:33] jfw: Signed contract is in the mail.
[20:34] cruciform reads
[20:44] cruciform: jfw, all looks well within the contract; I'm getting "Key not valid - Uncertain signature by Jacob Welsh" message upon verification?
[20:47] dorion: hm, it verifies fine for me.
[20:47] cruciform: odd - I got your public key from wot.deedbot.org
[20:50] dorion: cruciform, does your client show the fingerprint for the key ? does it differ from http://welshcomputing.com/jfw.asc ?
[20:54] cruciform: dorion, checking now
[20:56] cruciform: they appear to be different
[20:59] cruciform: jfw, dorion I've emailed you the differences between the keys found at http://wot.deedbot.org/0CBC05941D03FD95C3A47654AE0DF306025594B3.html and http://welshcomputing.com/jfw.asc
[21:07] jfw: I can't quite decipher that "comparison" format, it seems to show identical lines interleaved as if differing. The key at deedbot (with actual url http://wot.deedbot.org/0CBC05941D03FD95C3A47654AE0DF306025594B3.asc , not the html you linked...) differs only in being a minimal export i.e. without signatures by other keys
[21:08] jfw: I presume GPA gives you a way to list the public keys it knows about. What does it show for the fingerprint on mine?
[21:09] cruciform: 1198 8371 F17B E74A AE3D 4F01 F2C5 9329 5A9A E8D4
[21:10] cruciform: sorry, it shows: 0CBC 0594 1D03 FD95 C3A4 7654 AE0D F306 0255 94B3
[21:12] jfw: the second is correct, so hm, guess we need to find why it thinks the key woudl be 'invalid'
[21:13] cruciform: I just tried importing your key from http://welshcomputing.com/jfw.asc - it didn't import; presumably because it's recognising it as a duplicate of the one from deedbot
[21:14] cruciform: (GPA read it fine, though)
[21:14] dorion is working on issuing my sig now.
[21:16] jfw: gpg will show something like 'gpg: key 025594B3: "Jacob Welsh (jfw)" not changed' on importing an unchanged key.
[21:17] jfw: apparently 'valid' is their new and improved word for 'trusted', ugh. https://www.gnupg.org/faq/gnupg-faq.html#define_validity
[21:17] cruciform: jfw, yea, it showed a similar message
[21:18] cruciform: aha, I thought it might be - I tried changing the "validity" ie. trust; but it didn't do anything
[21:18] jfw: so 'uncertain signature' probably means 'valid signature but from a key not marked as trusted'
[21:18] cruciform: yea, what great use of language
[21:20] cruciform: lol, upon setting trust to "Ultimate"TM, it comes back valid
[21:20] cruciform begins to see a case for command line...
[21:21] jfw: https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2013-July/027799.html < yep, 'tis gpa-specific nonsense.
[21:21] cruciform: at any rate, I'll get the payment sent imminently
[21:22] cruciform parsed gnupg-devel as gnupg-drivel :P
[21:23] jfw: most so-called development amounts to as much anyway
[21:24] cruciform: having read the Collection of Pearls article recently, I belive it! http://ossasepia.com/2018/08/04/a-collection-of-pearls-as-well-as-ever-sadder-epitaphs/
[21:24] cruciform: (summarised it here: http://younghands.club/2020/10/06/ossasepia-log-notes-6-corrected/)
[21:25] dorion: the contract with my signature should be in your emails now.
[21:26] dorion: might as well try to verify it without setting my trust to ultimate, but I'm not holding my breath that the result will be any different.
[21:28] cruciform: dorion, worked upon Ultimate-Trust, but not before
[21:34] cruciform: payment sent; gotta sort out SSH and zoom before Tuesday
[21:35] jfw: 'ultimate' iirc means you designate the key as a root of trust, thus it will trust any keys signed by that key. Marking it 'trusted' possibly means something like you trust the owner to sign other keys, but without a signature tying that key to a root, it still won't trust the _key_. Anyways, you're probably best off ignoring its whole 'trust model' and manage your own keys.
[21:36] cruciform: jfw, makes sense - looking forward to ditching gpa altogether, in preference for command line
[21:36] jfw: cruciform: cool, will be on the lookout and do let us know if any questions re ssh keys or zoom!
[21:37] cruciform: will do, thanks
[21:37] cruciform is afk
[21:40] dorion: cruciform, cool, cheers.
Day changed to 2020-10-12
[21:00] cruciform: jwd, dorion is it ok to have zoom running on a separate machine to the one I'm SSH-ing on? I've not got a webcam/mic on my main linux box
[21:13] cruciform: I've emailed my SSH public key to sales@jwrd.net - I'm not sure what is meant by SSH client software (I'm on Ubuntu 16.04)? I've done sudo apt install openssh-client - is that sufficient?
[21:31] dorion: hi cruciform, it is fine to have zoom on a separate machine. important factors for zoom are : 1) sufficient power (in practice we've found it drains a call phone battery before the session is through.) 2) stable internet and 3) big enough screen to read if jacob shares his screen.
[21:31] cruciform: cool - laptop should be fine
[21:33] dorion: yep.
[21:34] dorion: the payment is well confirmed by now, thanks for sending with efficiency.
[21:35] cruciform: glad to hear; efficiency?
[21:36] dorion: i.e. it was issued and confirmed in short order after you received our signatures.
[21:37] cruciform: gotcha - thought you might be ironically referring to it coming from a "3" multisig address via PRB
[21:37] dorion: been awhile since I used ubuntu, I was somewhat expecting ssh to already be installed. you can open a terminal and issue :
[21:37] dorion: ssh -V
[21:37] cruciform: OpenSSH_7.6p1 Ubuntu-4ubuntu0.3, OpenSSL 1.0.2n 7 Dec 2017
[21:37] cruciform: does that sound ok?
[21:38] dorion: that does sound okay.
[21:39] dorion: I didn't see that the transaction was signed by a 3 address. I used gbw-node to watch it and then also asked jfw who used the same. didn't look at any 3rd parties :)
[21:40] dorion: and trb doesn't know about any 3.
[21:40] cruciform: PRB seems to default to 3 addresses (and the latest versions to segwit...) - guess that as the receiver, your node doesn't care either way
[21:41] cruciform: I wonder how much BTC is currently stored in SegWit addresses; how long until miners claim it
[21:42] dorion: right, but we defined bitcoin as so in case someone said, "send me a 3addy/segwit/anythingnottrb instead of an actual address, which all start with 1.
[21:42] cruciform: yea, makes sense
[21:43] dorion: not sure how much is in segwit, or in multisig.
[21:43] cruciform: is there a way to scan UTXOs to find out?
[21:43] dorion: seems like many fiat and altcoin exchanges use 3 addresses for deposits.
[21:44] dorion: there is certainly a way to calculate, I'm not exactly sure how though.
[21:44] cruciform: yea - it's all over fiat exchanges; though to my understanding, multisig isn't inherently shit - unlike segwit?
[21:45] dorion: multisig is also 'anyone can spend'
[21:45] cruciform: hmm - seems I need to check the logs for more info
[21:46] cruciform: what is it that makes segwit particulary shit vs multisig, then?
[21:47] dorion: segwit attempts to remove signatures from blocks.
[21:47] cruciform: I was under the impression that segwit had an additional incentive for "theft" over multisig
[21:49] dorion: http://trilema.com/2015/theres-a-one-bitcoin-reward-for-the-death-of-pieter-wuille-details-below/
[21:49] cruciform: thanks
[21:50] dorion: cruciform, it very well may, tbh I dunno cause I don't use or recommend either.
[21:51] dorion: like if you asked me about the details of some random altcoin.
[21:51] cruciform: yea, that's fair - I don't use 'em either - was surprised that PRB defaults to 'em, though I suppose that's not really surprising
[21:52] dorion: I don't pay attention and ultimately don't care because it doesn't affect me. not to discourage you from asking questions !
[21:52] dorion: but that's the answer re that one.
[21:52] cruciform: yea - more an academic question; asking to get an understanding of the difference
[21:53] dorion: yeah, not really a surprise. "it's for the user's benefit, after all."
[21:53] cruciform: "lower fees!"
[21:53] dorion: bitcoin for the poor.
[21:54] cruciform: need to reread http://trilema.com/2012/bitcoin-and-the-poor/ , too
[21:54] dorion: yeah, that's an important one of many.
[21:56] dorion: how was your visit to the sticks to see your infowarrior friend ?
[21:56] cruciform: surprisingly connected, actually - though used it as an excuse to not do any work :P
[21:57] dorion: it's healthy to unplug.
[21:57] dorion: like fasting.
[21:58] cruciform: for sure - though I've the opposite problem
[21:58] cruciform: need to get back on a fasting regimen, actually - what's yours?
[22:00] dorion: I typically don't breakfast until noon. then a 36-48h fast once a month or so. hasn't been the most regimented lately, but am doing one tomorrow.
[22:02] dorion: I do take coffee in the morning, so if to be strict it's being broken then, but no food.
[22:02] cruciform: nice - I did a similar 16/8 daily while pokering; then a Taleb-esque power law schedule (his original FB post seems to be down)
[22:02] dorion: s/so if to/so to/
[22:02] dorion: is it on archive.is ?
[22:02] dorion: I like reading taleb.
[22:04] cruciform: can't seem to find it on archive.is - I belive this is the original URL https://www.facebook.com/nntaleb/posts/friends-for-commentsi-am-trying-to-provide-a-probabilistic-structure-for-fasting/10152462093643375/
[22:04] cruciform: the core of his idea is to introduce variance into the fasting schedule, to mimic randomness of nature
[22:05] cruciform: so, rather than fasting eg. the same day each week, fast 1 day/week, 2 days/month, 3 days/quarter, 4days/year etc
[22:09] dorion: makes sense.
[22:12] cruciform: I've not gone beyond 48 hours, but a friend's fasted 28 days with no ill-effects (he's morbidly obese)
[22:13] dorion: the longest I went was ~5 days. I would've gone longer if I had more fat to burn.
[22:14] cruciform: nice - any ill effects?
[22:15] dorion: no ill effects. there is a youtube channel run by a guy that runs a fasting center in costa rica, talks about people fasting 30, 60, 90 days.
[22:16] cruciform: and there's this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Barbieri%27s_fast
[22:16] dorion: I have a friend that did a 90 day juice fast. he lost a lot a lot of muscle mass, but I don't think ill effects otherwise. most serious yoga dude I ever met.
[22:16] cruciform: "juice fast"
[22:16] dorion: the guy in cr is loren lockman.
[22:16] dorion: yeah, only take juice. no fiber.
[22:17] dorion: weil, juice and water.
[22:17] cruciform: I went no fiber via carnivore for a few weeks - killed my gym performance
[22:18] dorion: hmm. yeah, I've heard of it, but never tried.
[22:18] cruciform: also, got black hairy tongue from coffee + lack of fibre
[22:19] cruciform: I got the idea from Saifedean Ammous, and the guys at the Nakamoto Institute: http://wot.deedbot.org/2CEA814804FCF14D9C1AE8EA1EA2662DEB2FEFBE.html and http://wot.deedbot.org/3861EADB8E3A62CFD751E70BE416CE33F64FCA5E.html
[22:20] dorion: I ran sha512sum on the ssh key you sent and got :
[22:20] dorion: ea3a81d7cc6f281e57e4d6a20f59253f1bcac435abcd4717425fbf3b9d66988e60e0c239cb3aecdc3fe6d03a75d222391fd8c7ac31770f235f5edd4955b95757
[22:22] dorion: yeah, I've read the sni ppl, not saifedean though.
[22:22] cruciform: matches my hash
[22:22] dorion: cool.
[22:22] cruciform: he's generally pretty sound; friends with Taleb, too. Thanked MP in the foreword to his book
[22:23] dorion: jfw will follow up with the platform and zoom info.
[22:23] cruciform: great
[22:26] dorion: re saifedean : http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Jan-2020/#1016695
[22:26] cruciform: aha, thanks!
[22:27] dorion: np. I'm about to step away for a bit, good to chat and thanks for managing the ssh key and sha512sum , you're off to a good start :)
[22:27] cruciform: aye - looking forward to tomorrow!
[22:30] cruciform: found Taleb's Power Law fasting document: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8nhAlfIk3QISldaN2dPd2VlMGs/edit?pli=1
Day changed to 2020-10-13
[03:15] jfw: "is it ok to have zoom running on a separate machine" - yes, preferable in fact: zoom is not any kind of hygienic thing, apparently we need to call that out a little louder or something. I run it on a Windows toilet-box.
[03:17] jfw: dorion: "thanks for sending with efficiency" - "expediency" is perhaps the word.
[03:51] jfw: cruciform: "guess that as the receiver, your node doesn't care either way" - right, pecunia non olet in that regard.
[03:53] jfw: "I wonder how much BTC is currently stored in SegWit addresses" - whaack was wondering the same a while back; if he manages to get off arse and back to work on that block explorer, could add that index as a later feature
[03:59] jfw: however, the way "miners claim it" would go would be as a chain fork (a manifestation of one or more of the many forks in the protocol rules pushed by the power rangers); the p2sh bagholders won't recognize the redemption transactions as valid and the dispute will be settled in the field ala BTC/BCH.
[04:00] jfw: which is the larger reason for defining bitcoin relatively explicitly.
[04:04] jfw: "is there a way to scan UTXOs to find out?" - certainly, if someone codes it; my gbw-node even provides most of the supporting machinery though you'd have to extend it to recognize & index the nonstandard output forms.
[04:10] jfw: " was surprised that PRB defaults to 'em" - it didn't when p2sh (3-addresses) was first introduced, but sounds like they've got a ratchet going. "Can't send to 1-addresses anymore" would be the logical next step if the sheep have followed thus far
[04:32] jfw: I need to reschedule this week's office hours to 18:00 UTC Friday as I may be on the road or still reassembling the office on Thurs.
[04:43] jfw: "https://docs.google" - ugh. dude can't figure out how to write markup on his own site or what?
[04:44] jfw: apparently nothing to read there anyway, http://archive.is/8o3dv
[11:52] cruciform: jfw, thanks for clarification; no problem re: rescheduling office hours this week
[12:35] dorion: good morning. jfw, thanks for the clarifications. it's not clear to me what the field looks like if/when miners revert those softforks to trb, especially given many of the fiat exchanges use multisig, i.e. what price do you reference for trb ? a point of the auctions, e.g. for pizarro, was to establish a tmsr price.
[12:38] cruciform: it'd be really helpful to know how much BTC is anyone-can-spend, to get a feel for the scale of the disruption
[12:51] dorion: yeah, and then try to tag who are the holders.
[15:16] cruciform: sounds like a cool project; something I'd like to do once I know how
[16:50] dorion: cruciform, fyi working on the creds for you now.
[16:53] cruciform: dorion, great
[17:31] dorion: cruciform, emailed you the cypher.
[17:32] cruciform: got it, cheers
[17:32] dorion: cool.
Day changed to 2020-10-15
[16:52] whaack: howdy all
[16:53] cruciform: whaack, hey, how's it going?
[16:53] whaack: jfw: i learned yesterday that your alma mater is getting its admission process blessed by the equality fairy
[16:53] whaack: cruciform: not bad, trying to get back on track with some more meaningful work now
[16:54] whaack: picking up today on the block explorer project I started a couple months ago
[16:54] cruciform: I know the feeling! nice - is that the SegWit investigation?
[16:55] whaack: Nope, it's not, but I guess it could be used for that with some adjustments
[16:55] cruciform: got a link to the project?
[16:58] whaack: cruciform: ztkfg.com/2020/07/a-bitcoin-block-explorer-the-why-the-how/
[16:58] cruciform: cheers, I'll take a look
[16:58] dorion: hey whaack
[16:59] whaack: heyo, hows the golfing going?
[17:01] dorion: winding down, especially after : http://trilema.com/2020/i-would-like-to-propose-a-toast-to-violent-city-friday-foster/?b=t%20it%20better%20than%20golf&e=#select
[17:08] dorion: thought at present I'm preparing a presenation I'm giving at the club about why bitcoin is the strongest asset protection instrument in existence.
[17:08] dorion: though*
[17:12] whaack: aha so you're giving up golf for ~ sniping at Nascar events?
[17:14] dorion: not committing to the later, but it is hunting season here : fall turkey, squirrels, bow for deer (I don't hunt that), early muzzleloader for doe (I will hunt that).
[17:14] dorion: latter*
Day changed to 2020-10-16
[03:36] jfw: cruciform: the training server and I are back online; I've updated the IP address in the instructions (ssh-invite-dg.txt on the class site).
[03:38] jfw: welcome whaack. "admission process blessed by the equality fairy" - sounds like an amateur attempt; we will not know a just and equitable society until the same standard applies to the graduation process
[03:45] jfw: "People whose names start with T are disproportionately failing your course. Remedy this unfairness at once!"
[03:47] jfw: whaack: if you http:// prefix your links they may grow up into real links, as I have a log bot + viewer for this chan somewhere in the pipeline.
[04:08] jfw: whaack: have you settled on whether to go with http or irc+pastes for your block explorer interface? I can see the appeal of sticking to just the one stateless protocol and leveraging the browser for rendering tables and such, but I thought the voicing as access control aspect was a pretty interesting argument for irc
[04:10] jfw: and there's other advantages to having that overlay network : users don't need to know the service's IP for instance, and you're fairly insulated from flooding/ddos
[04:10] jfw: ofc at the cost of depending on that sometimes-flaky irc net.
[04:11] jfw: then if you go the web route, are you still leaning towards flask or what?
[14:28] cruciform: jfw, cheers
[17:58] dorion: ahoy.
[17:59] cruciform: dorion, how's it going?
[17:59] dorion: pretty well, how about you ?
[18:00] cruciform: not too bad - almost finished the homework
[18:00] dorion: nice!
[18:01] cruciform: just one question - Exercise 2, Question 3: What is the significance of grepping for “(1†? Does this correspond to the first chapter/title page of the manual?
[18:02] dorion looks
[18:08] dorion: it's a compound command, so there's a couple things going on there.
[18:09] dorion: one point it that some characters need to be escaped. did you try it without the double quotes ?
[18:10] dorion: btw, your "(1" reads like \xE2\x80\x9C(1\xE2\x80\x9D in yrc since there's no unicode support in yrc. (not a problem, just saying.)
[18:11] jfw: nah, the command given there is literally as given, including the quotes.
[18:11] jfw: ^ yeah his irc client is curly-quoting.
[18:11] cruciform: you're saying it's better to use single quotes than doubles?
[18:12] jfw: cruciform, let's back up a sec. were you asking what the grep command itself does, or why the particular search string or what?
[18:12] dorion: single and double quotes have different meaning in the shell.
[18:12] cruciform: why that particular search string
[18:13] cruciform: dorion, aha, I'll investigate
[18:13] jfw: in that case I suggest trying it without the grep to see the whole list that's being narrowed down
[18:15] jfw: but yes the 1 is the manual 'chapter' number - more like the category of thing being documented: user command, programming interface, configuration file... - as mentioned in the text
[18:15] cruciform: thanks; I'd assumed so
[18:18] jfw: cool.
[18:21] dorion: cruciform, are you starting to use the terminal on your ubuntu a bit more ?
[18:22] cruciform: dorion, slowly but surely - I'm starting to see how text is more efficient than waving a mouse around
[18:23] cruciform: also, "seeing" things with mind's eye, rather than actual eyes
[18:24] dorion: yeah, there was a time when I was learning it and I had a dream that clarified the file paths, lol.
[18:25] cruciform: lol
[18:25] cruciform: not yet dreaming of filesystems :p
[18:25] dorion: it was like, "oh, that's how it fits together."
[18:26] dorion: it's still early !
[18:26] cruciform: I can already see how the GUI file structure obfuscates/abstracts what's going on
[18:27] dorion: nice.
[18:27] cruciform: it's meant to simplifiy, but actually adds complexity (visually and conceptually)
[18:27] dorion: "should be so easy grandma can use it."
[18:29] cruciform: I can remember C:\ Windows to get into 3.1 as a kid; seems everthing's been GUI'ed since then
[18:29] jfw: the gui world seems to take that as far as it'll go too; e.g. I liked the Windows 3.1 file manager fine, gave a straightforward representation of the tree, but they kept piling things on to obscure it. right!
[18:39] cruciform: apologies - system crashed
[18:51] jfw: 'training to exhaustion' isn't supposed to mean *of the equipment*, heh
[18:52] cruciform: lol
[18:52] cruciform: need to get a bouncer set up
[18:53] cruciform: I was planning to check out Madrid and Barcelona next month, with a view to moving in the new year, but the plague restrictions have been ramped up
[18:53] jfw: no rush, I don't mind the irc-noise at present levels and once I get that logger up it'll cover the "what did I miss" part
[18:53] cruciform: are you guys planning to go back to Panama when possible?
[18:54] cruciform: jfw, can't have enough logs!
[18:54] jfw: at the wood-heated cottage I was in for the autumn that was certainly true!
[18:55] cruciform: I was also gonna check out Bitcoin meetup groups at the local universities, but they're all doing remote-learning atm
[18:56] cruciform: did you guys write up your experience with establishing an OTC Bitcoin trading network in Panama? I'm looking to do the same
[18:57] cruciform: jfw, always annoys me that ~75% of fireplace heat goes up the chimney
[18:57] jfw: I suspect the 'Bitcoin meetup groups' thing peaked ~2013, to the extent there was even anything to it
[18:57] cruciform: having said that, my formerly malfunctioning boiler has resulted in a ridiculous gas bill
[18:58] jfw: I'm not ruling out Panama but not in any rush to return.
[18:58] cruciform: I expect you're right re: meetup groups; not sure how else to find local BTC traders
[18:58] cruciform: possibly via localbitcoin.com
[18:59] jfw: they stopped being cool once they tried to ban cash. Probably got to go look for the generally cool people first then see who's interested in btc
[19:00] cruciform: yea, afaik they KYC everyone now, too
[19:00] cruciform: I've the problem that all my friends tend to do silly things like buy real estate/gold/stocks over BTC
[19:02] jfw: I'm no expert re the street trading, but seemed like some good advice given at http://ztkfg.com/2020/02/building-a-local-bitcoin-otc-network-in-guanacaste/
[19:04] cruciform: jfw, aha, thanks for the link!
[19:04] jfw: yw
[19:04] cruciform: now to see if my Boomer landlady takes coin...
[19:10] jfw: "~75% of fireplace heat goes up the chimney" - depends whether it's more of a decorative or functional fireplace too; plenty of ways to retain more heat if built for it
[19:11] jfw will bbl; hasta luego
[19:12] cruciform: take it easy!
[19:28] dorion just returning from working sponsors for a local bitcoin event of my own.
[19:28] cruciform: dorion, this was your BTC-as-sound-money pitch to golf club?
[19:29] dorion: ever been to Madrid or Barcelona before cruciform ? do you have friends/contacts there already ?
[19:29] cruciform: I've been to Barcelona; not Madrid - don't know anyone - it's an attempt to escape UK winter and learn Spanish
[19:30] dorion: yeah it's the golf club event, here's a draft of the flyer http://dorion-mode.com/bitcoin-beverages-baxters.pdf
[19:32] dorion: I see, I visited both a couple times when I studied in bilbao. liked barcelona more.
[19:32] cruciform: parsed "payment preference: Bitcoin, Cash," as "Bitcoin Cash"
[19:32] dorion: lol.
[19:33] cruciform: what did you prefer about Barcelona?
[19:34] dorion: keep in mind it was through university student's eyes, but I liked the setup more. the sea, las ramblas, etc.
[19:35] cruciform: yea; reckon I might end up agreeing with you - will have to spend a week or two in both and decide
[19:36] dorion: is one preferable to the other for poker ?
[19:37] cruciform: I know there's a casino in Barca; not sure about Madrid. There're a ton of Spanish poker players in London, so assume neither's great
[19:38] dorion: re Panama, I'm looking to at least test the waters mid-Q1. as of now I have a bias to rent for a month or two in chiriqui (western mountain province that borders costa rica).
[19:39] cruciform: look stunning
[19:39] cruciform: looks*
[19:40] dorion: <cruciform> now to see if my Boomer landlady takes coin... << does she have a son that would broker it for her/you ?
[19:41] dorion: how's the new place btw ? I recall you moved, but not recalling where.
[19:42] cruciform: only a daughter, afaik, but good point - I could ask. I moved to Bath a few months ago - it's lovely, though winter's coming and my lease ends in January, so considering options
[19:43] dorion: are most of your friends poker players ? when did you start playing btw ? it was bigly yuge mid-2000s with my friends.
[19:54] cruciform: dorion, I've only got a couple of close poker buddies; I started playing in 2011 - way after the mid-2000s golden era. Do you play?
[19:57] dorion: I've not played regularly for some years, but do like to play. played a couple weeks ago at a buddy's.
[20:05] dorion will bbl.
Day changed to 2020-10-17
[05:36] jfw: grumble... e2fsck on its time-based check decided that "Inode [number] extent tree (at level 2) could be narrower", and that this "could be more optimal" situation was important enough to interrupt bootup and ask me whether to "Fix?".
[05:38] jfw: not a problem on this machine but not good for things that need to boot unattended, guess I need to poke either the fsck options or e2fsprogs config files on Gales.
[05:42] jfw: if anyone's curious, that's run from the /etc/rc script; that and daemontools are about all there is to know about the Gales boot process.
[05:56] jfw: looks like I'm after "-p" for "preen", though I don't much like the language that it's for "automatically fixing problems". if there's a problem then I want to know about it; if on the other hand there's an "opportunity for optimization", it should either happen unconditionally or not at all.
Day changed to 2020-10-19
[18:57] whaack: jfw: heyo. I've been floating back and forth between the irc or web interface in my mind. I think that I'll go with irc. One headache is I would like to add a pushrawtx functionality to the blockexplorer, which may be annoying if the txn takes more bytes than irc allows in one message
Day changed to 2020-10-20
[16:12] cruciform: jfw, I've emailed you answers to session 1 homwork
[17:55] jfw: cruciform: received, thank you. Session 2 outline and homework are up on the site in case you'd like to preview / print. My own habit-homework is to start getting these up further in advance.
[17:56] cruciform: jfw, thanks; running about 5 minutes late for today's lesson
[20:30] jfw: cruciform: fyi I've corrected the known typos + misleading/confusing parts in the posted outline, in case you'd like to re-save / print / read.
[20:32] cruciform: jfw, thanks - I'll look at the updated version. 'Also, they stopped being cool once they tried to ban cash. Probably got to go look for the generally cool people first then see who's interested in btc' - turned out to be good advice; found a coupla poker guys looking to buy BTC OTC
[20:34] jfw: oh hey, nice
[20:38] jfw: whaack: I suppose the standard solution there would be to let it read as well as write from the designated paste service(s)
[20:39] jfw: or allow wrapping, by having a start of command delimiter that wouldn't be found in the rawtx hex
[20:42] jfw: or perhaps better, a closing delimiter so there's no doubt where the command ends. [line 1] !push "0123456 [line 2] abcdef"
Day changed to 2020-10-22
[20:34] jfw: I'll confess ftr that I forgot about the scheduled office hours today; because that I just didn't get caught doesn't mean it didn't happen.
[20:53] cruciform: jfw, thanks for full disclosure; as it turns out, I haven't got round to this week's homework yet anyway, so no questions unanswered at the moment
[20:57] jfw: so that works out fine apparently!
Day changed to 2020-10-23
[17:52] jfw: cruciform: dorion points out that I probably ought to offer to reschedule the office hours although they were unused so that we can all strengthen the habit. I can offer 18:00 UTC tomororw (Saturday)
[18:05] cruciform: jfw, perfect, thanks
[18:09] jfw: alright, noted.
Day changed to 2020-10-24
[18:01] cruciform: jfw, on Exercise 1, Q3 of Session 2 Homework, the command 'ls -d [A-Z]*' is listing files that don't start with a capital letter
[18:03] jfw: looking
[18:06] jfw: works for me; are you sure you "spelled" it right in the terminal?
[18:08] cruciform: yea; weird
[18:09] jfw: is this on the training system - shall I attach your tmux and have a look?
[18:09] cruciform: this is on my local system; lemme get on the training one
[18:10] jfw: another thought is maybe there are file names with spaces in them that you've confused for separate files
[18:12] cruciform: I don't see any files with spaces in 'em; works fine on training system
[18:14] jfw: most curious, pretty sure this should work the same on any linux/unix shell at least in the 'bourne' family. Do you mind screenshotting your terminal to show both the command and results?
[18:15] jfw: (there are more civilized i.e. text-based ways to do such session recording but guessing this will be the simplest for now.)
[18:17] jfw now imagines diana_coman saying "*never* just asusme something will work the same in a different environment unless verified!"
[18:17] cruciform: http://younghands.club/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/screenshot-from-2020-10-24-19-15-44.png
[18:18] cruciform: lol yes, 'just assume' got me in trouble from her recently
[18:19] jfw: I bet it's some "locales" / unicode thing, "2 can equal 12 in some cultures that don't discriminate against large numbers"
[18:19] cruciform: gotta love non-standard standards
[18:21] jfw: well in my view the ubuntu system is deviant; the original exercise, proposed answer & Gales Linux behavior are historically and logically correct, based on the objective fact that unix filesystems are case-sensitive.
[18:22] jfw: nice find though, thanks for asking
[18:22] cruciform: gotcha; I'll do the exercises on the test system
[18:22] cruciform: that was the only question from this week's work; thanks for your helpe and resheduled office hours
[18:23] jfw: cool, my pleasure.
[18:39] dorion is glad to read that worked out and vaguely recalls dash being the default shell on ubuntu.
[18:40] cruciform: I'm using GNOME Shell 3.28.4
[18:41] dorion: heh, I've heard of gnome, but not the shell.
[18:45] jfw: different type of shell (though same general concept), GNOME co-opted the term to simply mean ...GNOME.
[18:46] jfw: iirc dash is the default shell for script execution on ubuntu but it still has bash for user interaction, and I'm guessing it's bash at work here given the colorful prompt
Day changed to 2020-10-25
[16:27] cruciform: jfw, would it be possible to move this week's lesson back - perhaps to Wednesday @ 18:00 UTC?
[19:48] jfw: cruciform: it would.
[19:48] cruciform: jfw, great, let's do that - thanks! How's your weekend?
[20:05] jfw: weekend's fine, nothing too remarkable for me: got fresh bread from the oven, got fresh cookies even, and all my teeth still to rot with 'em; got trails to walk and take in the crisp leaves and crisp air; got hacking, wherein a pile of Scheme work continues slowly but surely coming together; and still got a mostly-neglected blog.
Day changed to 2020-10-26
[00:36] dorion: jfw, cruciform, do you want to maintain the thursday office hours or move back a day or two to give cruciform more time to work through the exercises ?
[00:38] dorion: ^just for this week I mean ?
[00:38] dorion: whoops, wasn't supposed to be a question.
[00:40] jfw: I could trade that for shifting Tuesday Nov. 10 class to Monday the 9th
[01:13] cruciform: jfw, dorion sounds good - Nov 9th, rather than 10th; how about moving office hours this week to Friday @ 18:00 UTC?
[01:14] jfw: works.
[01:15] cruciform: also, sounds like you had a great weekend!
[01:15] cruciform is afk
[01:16] jfw: thanks, cya.
Day changed to 2020-10-28
[18:01] jfw: how about that, all my recurring meetings have disappeared from Zoom. cruciform: I'll post an updated invite shortly.
[18:01] cruciform: jfw, ok
[18:05] jfw: ...or not, they reappeared and then there was USB driver trouble. Should be working now.
Day changed to 2020-10-30
[17:49] jfw: cruciform: I have corrected "Intermediate Use of the UNIX Operating System - Exercise 1" and the linked answers to reflect our present environment and will have 2-3 done shortly.
[17:49] cruciform: jfw, aha, I had wondered about that
[17:54] jfw: One note from the reading is that the "alias" command syntax shown is for the C or T shell. For ours (the Bourne shell family which is the usual on Linux) you need an = sign with no space between the alias name and definition, as in: alias my_command='existing_command -args' . (The quotes are necessary due to the space in the definition; the different types of quotes will be covered in more
[17:54] jfw: detail.)
[17:55] cruciform: jfw, gotcha - thanks
[17:56] cruciform: I'd like to do some reading up on graph&set theory - recommend any introductory textbooks?
[17:59] jfw: hm, my own introduction to the subject was from a course with assorted linked document sort of readings so I don't know a textbook offhand. 'Discrete math' is the more abstract branch and 'theory of computation' the more in-depth as applied to computing
[18:01] cruciform: thanks
[18:06] cruciform: it occured to me that the cmd line requires thinking because it's essentially writing, and writing IS thinking
[18:09] jfw: afaik the classic on symbolic logic is Whitehead & Russell but I'm a ways from tackling that; while set theory goes back to Cantor
[18:09] cruciform: corrected link from above
[18:09] jfw: indeed.
[18:09] cruciform: jfw, thanks - I'll check it out
[18:11] cruciform: I've been having some lulzy conversations with poker buddies regarding 'crypto' - they're all into Ethereum and who knows what else; skeptical of BTC coz it can't pay for coffee
[18:12] cruciform: I pointed to the idiocy of the crowds regarding the plague, and that 95% or w/e of global wealth is held by 1% of population; mass-adoption isn't necessary (cf. gold, stocks, SDRs etc.)
[18:12] jfw: heh, so do they think gold or the Bank of England aren't things because they aren't used retail?
[18:13] cruciform: exactly!
[18:13] cruciform: this is the guy who has 1/4 - 1/3 of his wealth in TSLA (P/E ~ 1K)...
[18:15] jfw: well, trend following works wonders, until it doesn't
[18:15] cruciform: jfw, I'm surprised you haven't already corrected the homeworks to refer to our system environment - hasn't this come up already with prior students?
[18:17] jfw: yes, and it's a shameful situation where I'd made corrections on printouts but not got them merged back to the source.
[18:21] jfw: not even sure why I've avoided it so; not like it's hard once I sit down to do it.
[18:21] cruciform: I see; perhaps you could correct 'em prior to the lessons, so I don't have to go back and repeat?
[18:22] cruciform: ime, avoidance doesn't tend to make much sense, by its very nature
[18:22] cruciform: nor is it all that connected to the amount of work being avoided
[18:23] jfw: quite so. and yes, I could & will.
[18:23] cruciform: cheers
[18:23] jfw: apologies for the trouble.
[18:24] cruciform: no problem; my only questions were regarding that issue
[18:25] cruciform: how's the Scheme interpreter going?
[18:26] jfw: well, if slowly; had a devil of a bug to trace that took me all the way down into Linux kernel sources
[18:27] jfw: with the result that a certain interface simply doesn't work the way I expected & wanted and I simply need to use a different method.
[18:28] cruciform: sounds tricky, but fruitful
[18:31] jfw: lately we've also been researching AMD graphics hardware and will be testing out a corebootable desktop option
[18:31] cruciform: cool - is that to get around Intel diddling?
[18:32] jfw: to get around Intel as a whole, for whatever badness may be thereby excluded
[18:34] cruciform: sounds good!
Day changed to 2020-10-31
[10:24] jfw: cruciform: now that we see what my "shortly" estimates mean - practice sets 2 and 3 and corresponding answer keys are all updated now. While it turned out I'd already covered the noted "alias" discrepancy in the text, there were a couple other things crying out to be updated or clarified; if you reload the text you should see the insertions highlighted in green.
[10:28] jfw: One way I screwed myself here - besides the initial call to build on someone else's stuff, although I kinda like the perspective it brings simply from being old, beyond what I could have come up with myself - was not going straight to an automated cleanup tool like perhaps http://www.html-tidy.org/ to deal with the mess of likely GUI-generated markup cruft that quite interfered with any actual
[10:28] jfw: editing work and got me doing pen on paper corrections in the first place.
[10:33] jfw: (so possibly the avoidance had an intelligible cause after all, lol)
[17:21] dorion: my trb node is at height 650789 ; "ProcessBlock" has resulted in nothing but ~30 BASTARD BLOCKS in the past ~4hrs, all from 208.94.240.42, though I ACCEPTED several blocks from that peer prior.
[18:45] jfw: week of oct 12 works for me except Wednesday I'll be relocating the office.
[18:47] jfw: dorion: seems to me that the main value we got from the Faraday cage experience is insight into what *doesn't* work, among which the "local metal shop" concept
[18:47] jfw: I have no doubt we could develop a working solution, but we don't exactly have one to offer presently that i can see.
[18:52] jfw: I'll tackle the questions in that article in its comments.
[18:53] dorion: jfw, thanks.
Day changed to 2020-10-11
[12:58] dorion: good afternoon cruciform.
[12:58] cruciform: s'up
[12:59] dorion: doin aight. you ? I'm seeing 11,359.59 on cmc
[12:59] cruciform: I'm seeing $11,359.59 as the price on coinmarketcap - looks good?
[12:59] cruciform: great
[12:59] dorion: lol.
[12:59] cruciform: just got back from gym; got a summary to write later - life's good! started hunting?
[13:01] cruciform will brb
[13:01] dorion: nice, I've not hunted yet. next weekend for sure.
[13:10] cruciform: cool - we don't really have that culture over here
[13:10] cruciform: so, shall we get the contract signed?
[13:18] dorion: yea, I have to move it over to the airgap and back. calling jfw to see if he's up yet.
[13:18] cruciform: ok
[13:22] dorion: no answer, he should be around soon though.
[13:23] cruciform: great - to confirm: this is the payment address 1Je81fN6KHso92oZaD9rzC2BnnNqLP42CF ?
[13:25] dorion: want to check back in an hour or so ? best to verify the payment address by verifying the signature on the contract. I don't think there's a high chance of being mitm right nao, but that's why we have the sigs to fall back on.
[13:25] cruciform: great - be back in an hour
[14:16] dorion: cruciform, I've received no word from jfw this morning. it's 10am here and he tends to be a night owl that sleeps into the late am.
[14:18] cruciform: dorion, ok; what d'ya wanna do?
[14:19] dorion: I'd like him to get logged up and to hear from him. what is your schedule like today ? are you available to check back in later this evening your time ?
[14:19] cruciform: yea, that's fine; I'll be in all day - ping me
[14:21] dorion: cool, thanks. as will I.
[14:21] dorion: cruciform, do you have any articles cooking ?
[14:28] cruciform: Working on the #o logs for 2nd Sept 2019; there's some interesting stuff relating to the BitBet miner cartel - http://ossasepia.com/2016/03/28/when-the-messenger-shoots-back/
[14:28] cruciform: how about you?
[14:33] dorion: nice. yeah, the bitbet history is indeed interesting.
[14:35] dorion: I have a few at various stages, going to decide today which to finish and publish first. I need to knock off the blogging rust.
[14:36] cruciform: yea - I find it gets easier once you're in the rhythm
[14:40] dorion will check back at 16:00 utc.
[18:08] jfw: "it's 10am here and he tends to be a night owl" << more to the point, I don't presently maintain reachability at all times so if someone needs me available in a rush it will help to let me know to expect that.
[18:09] jfw: I can get to the signing shortly.
[18:12] cruciform: jfw, noted; I'm free to sign as soon as you and dorion are
[19:03] jfw: warming up the keys and giving a final readthrough now.
[19:08] cruciform: jfw, dorion I forgot I need my password for signing stuff, which I don't have with me - is there another way I can sign-off on the contract?
[19:09] jfw: hah, brought keys but left brain behind?
[19:10] cruciform: something like that - I've never actually signed anything; don't need the password for decrypting
[19:11] jfw: well, it seems to me that since the contract is mainly there to hold us to delivery in exchange for payment in advance, it's good enough if we sign and receipt of the payment as specified is enough on your end
[19:11] cruciform: I agree
[19:12] cruciform: as I discussed with dorion, I've no issues with contents of the contract
[19:15] dorion: cruciform, hm, my gpg asks for my password when I decrypt. does yours have the password saved somehow ? anyways, I'm fine with signing and you can too at your convenience when you have the password.
[19:15] cruciform: the only thing we brought up was the handling of the 10% discount; we agreed it to be applied totally in reducing the price of the third module, rather than 10% off each module purchased individually
[19:16] cruciform: dorion, yea, I vaguelly recall setting up a password when I generated the keypair; I don't have to enter it when decrypting - only signing
[19:16] cruciform: I've got it written down somewhere, but not to hand
[19:16] jfw: whew, just found my serial cable; thought it was going to be my turn to be embarrassed!
[19:17] jfw: possibly the encryption subkey is unencrypted
[19:17] jfw: (re passwords)
[19:17] cruciform: it was generated via GPA in Ubuntu, if that sheds any light
[19:19] jfw: more like sheds darkness, heh. could be any kind of nonsense that ubuntu cooked up on top of actual-gpg
[19:20] dorion: yeah, for the future discount it'd be ($7200 * 0.9)-$360 = $6,120 worth of btc (at that future price).
[19:21] cruciform: dorion, makes sense
[19:21] dorion: cool.
[19:22] dorion: cruciform, you may want to try to change the password on your gpg key sooner rather than later to something you actually know/have saved.
[19:23] cruciform: yea, I've made a note to get that sorted as soon as possible, thanks
[19:23] dorion: good luck.
[19:24] cruciform: I may need it :p
[19:26] dorion: there's only so much one can do, especially if it requires the current password to change to a new one.
[19:27] cruciform: dorion, yea - I'd totally forgotten about it, given that deedbot only requires decrypting
[19:28] dorion: there is a thread in #ossasepia where thimbronion and diana_coman discuss his case.
[19:28] cruciform: cheers - I'll have a look for it
[19:29] cruciform: I'm reasonably sure I've got it written down somewhere, so fingers crossed
[20:12] jfw: I'm making a few minor changes e.g. consistent pluralization of "Consultants", clarifying the expiration clause, and noting that client's acceptance is based on issuance of the settlement transaction.
[20:13] cruciform: jfw, sounds good
[20:23] jfw: looks like gpg clearsigning is even jankier than I realized: it strips trailing whitespace somewhere in the process - probably for the input to the hash - but not in the output file.
[20:33] jfw: Signed contract is in the mail.
[20:34] cruciform reads
[20:44] cruciform: jfw, all looks well within the contract; I'm getting "Key not valid - Uncertain signature by Jacob Welsh" message upon verification?
[20:47] dorion: hm, it verifies fine for me.
[20:47] cruciform: odd - I got your public key from wot.deedbot.org
[20:50] dorion: cruciform, does your client show the fingerprint for the key ? does it differ from http://welshcomputing.com/jfw.asc ?
[20:54] cruciform: dorion, checking now
[20:56] cruciform: they appear to be different
[20:59] cruciform: jfw, dorion I've emailed you the differences between the keys found at http://wot.deedbot.org/0CBC05941D03FD95C3A47654AE0DF306025594B3.html and http://welshcomputing.com/jfw.asc
[21:07] jfw: I can't quite decipher that "comparison" format, it seems to show identical lines interleaved as if differing. The key at deedbot (with actual url http://wot.deedbot.org/0CBC05941D03FD95C3A47654AE0DF306025594B3.asc , not the html you linked...) differs only in being a minimal export i.e. without signatures by other keys
[21:08] jfw: I presume GPA gives you a way to list the public keys it knows about. What does it show for the fingerprint on mine?
[21:09] cruciform: 1198 8371 F17B E74A AE3D 4F01 F2C5 9329 5A9A E8D4
[21:10] cruciform: sorry, it shows: 0CBC 0594 1D03 FD95 C3A4 7654 AE0D F306 0255 94B3
[21:12] jfw: the second is correct, so hm, guess we need to find why it thinks the key woudl be 'invalid'
[21:13] cruciform: I just tried importing your key from http://welshcomputing.com/jfw.asc - it didn't import; presumably because it's recognising it as a duplicate of the one from deedbot
[21:14] cruciform: (GPA read it fine, though)
[21:14] dorion is working on issuing my sig now.
[21:16] jfw: gpg will show something like 'gpg: key 025594B3: "Jacob Welsh (jfw)" not changed' on importing an unchanged key.
[21:17] jfw: apparently 'valid' is their new and improved word for 'trusted', ugh. https://www.gnupg.org/faq/gnupg-faq.html#define_validity
[21:17] cruciform: jfw, yea, it showed a similar message
[21:18] cruciform: aha, I thought it might be - I tried changing the "validity" ie. trust; but it didn't do anything
[21:18] jfw: so 'uncertain signature' probably means 'valid signature but from a key not marked as trusted'
[21:18] cruciform: yea, what great use of language
[21:20] cruciform: lol, upon setting trust to "Ultimate"TM, it comes back valid
[21:20] cruciform begins to see a case for command line...
[21:21] jfw: https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2013-July/027799.html < yep, 'tis gpa-specific nonsense.
[21:21] cruciform: at any rate, I'll get the payment sent imminently
[21:22] cruciform parsed gnupg-devel as gnupg-drivel :P
[21:23] jfw: most so-called development amounts to as much anyway
[21:24] cruciform: having read the Collection of Pearls article recently, I belive it! http://ossasepia.com/2018/08/04/a-collection-of-pearls-as-well-as-ever-sadder-epitaphs/
[21:24] cruciform: (summarised it here: http://younghands.club/2020/10/06/ossasepia-log-notes-6-corrected/)
[21:25] dorion: the contract with my signature should be in your emails now.
[21:26] dorion: might as well try to verify it without setting my trust to ultimate, but I'm not holding my breath that the result will be any different.
[21:28] cruciform: dorion, worked upon Ultimate-Trust, but not before
[21:34] cruciform: payment sent; gotta sort out SSH and zoom before Tuesday
[21:35] jfw: 'ultimate' iirc means you designate the key as a root of trust, thus it will trust any keys signed by that key. Marking it 'trusted' possibly means something like you trust the owner to sign other keys, but without a signature tying that key to a root, it still won't trust the _key_. Anyways, you're probably best off ignoring its whole 'trust model' and manage your own keys.
[21:36] cruciform: jfw, makes sense - looking forward to ditching gpa altogether, in preference for command line
[21:36] jfw: cruciform: cool, will be on the lookout and do let us know if any questions re ssh keys or zoom!
[21:37] cruciform: will do, thanks
[21:37] cruciform is afk
[21:40] dorion: cruciform, cool, cheers.
Day changed to 2020-10-12
[21:00] cruciform: jwd, dorion is it ok to have zoom running on a separate machine to the one I'm SSH-ing on? I've not got a webcam/mic on my main linux box
[21:13] cruciform: I've emailed my SSH public key to sales@jwrd.net - I'm not sure what is meant by SSH client software (I'm on Ubuntu 16.04)? I've done sudo apt install openssh-client - is that sufficient?
[21:31] dorion: hi cruciform, it is fine to have zoom on a separate machine. important factors for zoom are : 1) sufficient power (in practice we've found it drains a call phone battery before the session is through.) 2) stable internet and 3) big enough screen to read if jacob shares his screen.
[21:31] cruciform: cool - laptop should be fine
[21:33] dorion: yep.
[21:34] dorion: the payment is well confirmed by now, thanks for sending with efficiency.
[21:35] cruciform: glad to hear; efficiency?
[21:36] dorion: i.e. it was issued and confirmed in short order after you received our signatures.
[21:37] cruciform: gotcha - thought you might be ironically referring to it coming from a "3" multisig address via PRB
[21:37] dorion: been awhile since I used ubuntu, I was somewhat expecting ssh to already be installed. you can open a terminal and issue :
[21:37] dorion: ssh -V
[21:37] cruciform: OpenSSH_7.6p1 Ubuntu-4ubuntu0.3, OpenSSL 1.0.2n 7 Dec 2017
[21:37] cruciform: does that sound ok?
[21:38] dorion: that does sound okay.
[21:39] dorion: I didn't see that the transaction was signed by a 3 address. I used gbw-node to watch it and then also asked jfw who used the same. didn't look at any 3rd parties :)
[21:40] dorion: and trb doesn't know about any 3.
[21:40] cruciform: PRB seems to default to 3 addresses (and the latest versions to segwit...) - guess that as the receiver, your node doesn't care either way
[21:41] cruciform: I wonder how much BTC is currently stored in SegWit addresses; how long until miners claim it
[21:42] dorion: right, but we defined bitcoin as so in case someone said, "send me a 3addy/segwit/anythingnottrb instead of an actual address, which all start with 1.
[21:42] cruciform: yea, makes sense
[21:43] dorion: not sure how much is in segwit, or in multisig.
[21:43] cruciform: is there a way to scan UTXOs to find out?
[21:43] dorion: seems like many fiat and altcoin exchanges use 3 addresses for deposits.
[21:44] dorion: there is certainly a way to calculate, I'm not exactly sure how though.
[21:44] cruciform: yea - it's all over fiat exchanges; though to my understanding, multisig isn't inherently shit - unlike segwit?
[21:45] dorion: multisig is also 'anyone can spend'
[21:45] cruciform: hmm - seems I need to check the logs for more info
[21:46] cruciform: what is it that makes segwit particulary shit vs multisig, then?
[21:47] dorion: segwit attempts to remove signatures from blocks.
[21:47] cruciform: I was under the impression that segwit had an additional incentive for "theft" over multisig
[21:49] dorion: http://trilema.com/2015/theres-a-one-bitcoin-reward-for-the-death-of-pieter-wuille-details-below/
[21:49] cruciform: thanks
[21:50] dorion: cruciform, it very well may, tbh I dunno cause I don't use or recommend either.
[21:51] dorion: like if you asked me about the details of some random altcoin.
[21:51] cruciform: yea, that's fair - I don't use 'em either - was surprised that PRB defaults to 'em, though I suppose that's not really surprising
[21:52] dorion: I don't pay attention and ultimately don't care because it doesn't affect me. not to discourage you from asking questions !
[21:52] dorion: but that's the answer re that one.
[21:52] cruciform: yea - more an academic question; asking to get an understanding of the difference
[21:53] dorion: yeah, not really a surprise. "it's for the user's benefit, after all."
[21:53] cruciform: "lower fees!"
[21:53] dorion: bitcoin for the poor.
[21:54] cruciform: need to reread http://trilema.com/2012/bitcoin-and-the-poor/ , too
[21:54] dorion: yeah, that's an important one of many.
[21:56] dorion: how was your visit to the sticks to see your infowarrior friend ?
[21:56] cruciform: surprisingly connected, actually - though used it as an excuse to not do any work :P
[21:57] dorion: it's healthy to unplug.
[21:57] dorion: like fasting.
[21:58] cruciform: for sure - though I've the opposite problem
[21:58] cruciform: need to get back on a fasting regimen, actually - what's yours?
[22:00] dorion: I typically don't breakfast until noon. then a 36-48h fast once a month or so. hasn't been the most regimented lately, but am doing one tomorrow.
[22:02] dorion: I do take coffee in the morning, so if to be strict it's being broken then, but no food.
[22:02] cruciform: nice - I did a similar 16/8 daily while pokering; then a Taleb-esque power law schedule (his original FB post seems to be down)
[22:02] dorion: s/so if to/so to/
[22:02] dorion: is it on archive.is ?
[22:02] dorion: I like reading taleb.
[22:04] cruciform: can't seem to find it on archive.is - I belive this is the original URL https://www.facebook.com/nntaleb/posts/friends-for-commentsi-am-trying-to-provide-a-probabilistic-structure-for-fasting/10152462093643375/
[22:04] cruciform: the core of his idea is to introduce variance into the fasting schedule, to mimic randomness of nature
[22:05] cruciform: so, rather than fasting eg. the same day each week, fast 1 day/week, 2 days/month, 3 days/quarter, 4days/year etc
[22:09] dorion: makes sense.
[22:12] cruciform: I've not gone beyond 48 hours, but a friend's fasted 28 days with no ill-effects (he's morbidly obese)
[22:13] dorion: the longest I went was ~5 days. I would've gone longer if I had more fat to burn.
[22:14] cruciform: nice - any ill effects?
[22:15] dorion: no ill effects. there is a youtube channel run by a guy that runs a fasting center in costa rica, talks about people fasting 30, 60, 90 days.
[22:16] cruciform: and there's this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angus_Barbieri%27s_fast
[22:16] dorion: I have a friend that did a 90 day juice fast. he lost a lot a lot of muscle mass, but I don't think ill effects otherwise. most serious yoga dude I ever met.
[22:16] cruciform: "juice fast"
[22:16] dorion: the guy in cr is loren lockman.
[22:16] dorion: yeah, only take juice. no fiber.
[22:17] dorion: weil, juice and water.
[22:17] cruciform: I went no fiber via carnivore for a few weeks - killed my gym performance
[22:18] dorion: hmm. yeah, I've heard of it, but never tried.
[22:18] cruciform: also, got black hairy tongue from coffee + lack of fibre
[22:19] cruciform: I got the idea from Saifedean Ammous, and the guys at the Nakamoto Institute: http://wot.deedbot.org/2CEA814804FCF14D9C1AE8EA1EA2662DEB2FEFBE.html and http://wot.deedbot.org/3861EADB8E3A62CFD751E70BE416CE33F64FCA5E.html
[22:20] dorion: I ran sha512sum on the ssh key you sent and got :
[22:20] dorion: ea3a81d7cc6f281e57e4d6a20f59253f1bcac435abcd4717425fbf3b9d66988e60e0c239cb3aecdc3fe6d03a75d222391fd8c7ac31770f235f5edd4955b95757
[22:22] dorion: yeah, I've read the sni ppl, not saifedean though.
[22:22] cruciform: matches my hash
[22:22] dorion: cool.
[22:22] cruciform: he's generally pretty sound; friends with Taleb, too. Thanked MP in the foreword to his book
[22:23] dorion: jfw will follow up with the platform and zoom info.
[22:23] cruciform: great
[22:26] dorion: re saifedean : http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Jan-2020/#1016695
[22:26] cruciform: aha, thanks!
[22:27] dorion: np. I'm about to step away for a bit, good to chat and thanks for managing the ssh key and sha512sum , you're off to a good start :)
[22:27] cruciform: aye - looking forward to tomorrow!
[22:30] cruciform: found Taleb's Power Law fasting document: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8nhAlfIk3QISldaN2dPd2VlMGs/edit?pli=1
Day changed to 2020-10-13
[03:15] jfw: "is it ok to have zoom running on a separate machine" - yes, preferable in fact: zoom is not any kind of hygienic thing, apparently we need to call that out a little louder or something. I run it on a Windows toilet-box.
[03:17] jfw: dorion: "thanks for sending with efficiency" - "expediency" is perhaps the word.
[03:51] jfw: cruciform: "guess that as the receiver, your node doesn't care either way" - right, pecunia non olet in that regard.
[03:53] jfw: "I wonder how much BTC is currently stored in SegWit addresses" - whaack was wondering the same a while back; if he manages to get off arse and back to work on that block explorer, could add that index as a later feature
[03:59] jfw: however, the way "miners claim it" would go would be as a chain fork (a manifestation of one or more of the many forks in the protocol rules pushed by the power rangers); the p2sh bagholders won't recognize the redemption transactions as valid and the dispute will be settled in the field ala BTC/BCH.
[04:00] jfw: which is the larger reason for defining bitcoin relatively explicitly.
[04:04] jfw: "is there a way to scan UTXOs to find out?" - certainly, if someone codes it; my gbw-node even provides most of the supporting machinery though you'd have to extend it to recognize & index the nonstandard output forms.
[04:10] jfw: " was surprised that PRB defaults to 'em" - it didn't when p2sh (3-addresses) was first introduced, but sounds like they've got a ratchet going. "Can't send to 1-addresses anymore" would be the logical next step if the sheep have followed thus far
[04:32] jfw: I need to reschedule this week's office hours to 18:00 UTC Friday as I may be on the road or still reassembling the office on Thurs.
[04:43] jfw: "https://docs.google" - ugh. dude can't figure out how to write markup on his own site or what?
[04:44] jfw: apparently nothing to read there anyway, http://archive.is/8o3dv
[11:52] cruciform: jfw, thanks for clarification; no problem re: rescheduling office hours this week
[12:35] dorion: good morning. jfw, thanks for the clarifications. it's not clear to me what the field looks like if/when miners revert those softforks to trb, especially given many of the fiat exchanges use multisig, i.e. what price do you reference for trb ? a point of the auctions, e.g. for pizarro, was to establish a tmsr price.
[12:38] cruciform: it'd be really helpful to know how much BTC is anyone-can-spend, to get a feel for the scale of the disruption
[12:51] dorion: yeah, and then try to tag who are the holders.
[15:16] cruciform: sounds like a cool project; something I'd like to do once I know how
[16:50] dorion: cruciform, fyi working on the creds for you now.
[16:53] cruciform: dorion, great
[17:31] dorion: cruciform, emailed you the cypher.
[17:32] cruciform: got it, cheers
[17:32] dorion: cool.
Day changed to 2020-10-15
[16:52] whaack: howdy all
[16:53] cruciform: whaack, hey, how's it going?
[16:53] whaack: jfw: i learned yesterday that your alma mater is getting its admission process blessed by the equality fairy
[16:53] whaack: cruciform: not bad, trying to get back on track with some more meaningful work now
[16:54] whaack: picking up today on the block explorer project I started a couple months ago
[16:54] cruciform: I know the feeling! nice - is that the SegWit investigation?
[16:55] whaack: Nope, it's not, but I guess it could be used for that with some adjustments
[16:55] cruciform: got a link to the project?
[16:58] whaack: cruciform: ztkfg.com/2020/07/a-bitcoin-block-explorer-the-why-the-how/
[16:58] cruciform: cheers, I'll take a look
[16:58] dorion: hey whaack
[16:59] whaack: heyo, hows the golfing going?
[17:01] dorion: winding down, especially after : http://trilema.com/2020/i-would-like-to-propose-a-toast-to-violent-city-friday-foster/?b=t%20it%20better%20than%20golf&e=#select
[17:08] dorion: thought at present I'm preparing a presenation I'm giving at the club about why bitcoin is the strongest asset protection instrument in existence.
[17:08] dorion: though*
[17:12] whaack: aha so you're giving up golf for ~ sniping at Nascar events?
[17:14] dorion: not committing to the later, but it is hunting season here : fall turkey, squirrels, bow for deer (I don't hunt that), early muzzleloader for doe (I will hunt that).
[17:14] dorion: latter*
Day changed to 2020-10-16
[03:36] jfw: cruciform: the training server and I are back online; I've updated the IP address in the instructions (ssh-invite-dg.txt on the class site).
[03:38] jfw: welcome whaack. "admission process blessed by the equality fairy" - sounds like an amateur attempt; we will not know a just and equitable society until the same standard applies to the graduation process
[03:45] jfw: "People whose names start with T are disproportionately failing your course. Remedy this unfairness at once!"
[03:47] jfw: whaack: if you http:// prefix your links they may grow up into real links, as I have a log bot + viewer for this chan somewhere in the pipeline.
[04:08] jfw: whaack: have you settled on whether to go with http or irc+pastes for your block explorer interface? I can see the appeal of sticking to just the one stateless protocol and leveraging the browser for rendering tables and such, but I thought the voicing as access control aspect was a pretty interesting argument for irc
[04:10] jfw: and there's other advantages to having that overlay network : users don't need to know the service's IP for instance, and you're fairly insulated from flooding/ddos
[04:10] jfw: ofc at the cost of depending on that sometimes-flaky irc net.
[04:11] jfw: then if you go the web route, are you still leaning towards flask or what?
[14:28] cruciform: jfw, cheers
[17:58] dorion: ahoy.
[17:59] cruciform: dorion, how's it going?
[17:59] dorion: pretty well, how about you ?
[18:00] cruciform: not too bad - almost finished the homework
[18:00] dorion: nice!
[18:01] cruciform: just one question - Exercise 2, Question 3: What is the significance of grepping for “(1†? Does this correspond to the first chapter/title page of the manual?
[18:02] dorion looks
[18:08] dorion: it's a compound command, so there's a couple things going on there.
[18:09] dorion: one point it that some characters need to be escaped. did you try it without the double quotes ?
[18:10] dorion: btw, your "(1" reads like \xE2\x80\x9C(1\xE2\x80\x9D in yrc since there's no unicode support in yrc. (not a problem, just saying.)
[18:11] jfw: nah, the command given there is literally as given, including the quotes.
[18:11] jfw: ^ yeah his irc client is curly-quoting.
[18:11] cruciform: you're saying it's better to use single quotes than doubles?
[18:12] jfw: cruciform, let's back up a sec. were you asking what the grep command itself does, or why the particular search string or what?
[18:12] dorion: single and double quotes have different meaning in the shell.
[18:12] cruciform: why that particular search string
[18:13] cruciform: dorion, aha, I'll investigate
[18:13] jfw: in that case I suggest trying it without the grep to see the whole list that's being narrowed down
[18:15] jfw: but yes the 1 is the manual 'chapter' number - more like the category of thing being documented: user command, programming interface, configuration file... - as mentioned in the text
[18:15] cruciform: thanks; I'd assumed so
[18:18] jfw: cool.
[18:21] dorion: cruciform, are you starting to use the terminal on your ubuntu a bit more ?
[18:22] cruciform: dorion, slowly but surely - I'm starting to see how text is more efficient than waving a mouse around
[18:23] cruciform: also, "seeing" things with mind's eye, rather than actual eyes
[18:24] dorion: yeah, there was a time when I was learning it and I had a dream that clarified the file paths, lol.
[18:25] cruciform: lol
[18:25] cruciform: not yet dreaming of filesystems :p
[18:25] dorion: it was like, "oh, that's how it fits together."
[18:26] dorion: it's still early !
[18:26] cruciform: I can already see how the GUI file structure obfuscates/abstracts what's going on
[18:27] dorion: nice.
[18:27] cruciform: it's meant to simplifiy, but actually adds complexity (visually and conceptually)
[18:27] dorion: "should be so easy grandma can use it."
[18:29] cruciform: I can remember C:\ Windows to get into 3.1 as a kid; seems everthing's been GUI'ed since then
[18:29] jfw: the gui world seems to take that as far as it'll go too; e.g. I liked the Windows 3.1 file manager fine, gave a straightforward representation of the tree, but they kept piling things on to obscure it. right!
[18:39] cruciform: apologies - system crashed
[18:51] jfw: 'training to exhaustion' isn't supposed to mean *of the equipment*, heh
[18:52] cruciform: lol
[18:52] cruciform: need to get a bouncer set up
[18:53] cruciform: I was planning to check out Madrid and Barcelona next month, with a view to moving in the new year, but the plague restrictions have been ramped up
[18:53] jfw: no rush, I don't mind the irc-noise at present levels and once I get that logger up it'll cover the "what did I miss" part
[18:53] cruciform: are you guys planning to go back to Panama when possible?
[18:54] cruciform: jfw, can't have enough logs!
[18:54] jfw: at the wood-heated cottage I was in for the autumn that was certainly true!
[18:55] cruciform: I was also gonna check out Bitcoin meetup groups at the local universities, but they're all doing remote-learning atm
[18:56] cruciform: did you guys write up your experience with establishing an OTC Bitcoin trading network in Panama? I'm looking to do the same
[18:57] cruciform: jfw, always annoys me that ~75% of fireplace heat goes up the chimney
[18:57] jfw: I suspect the 'Bitcoin meetup groups' thing peaked ~2013, to the extent there was even anything to it
[18:57] cruciform: having said that, my formerly malfunctioning boiler has resulted in a ridiculous gas bill
[18:58] jfw: I'm not ruling out Panama but not in any rush to return.
[18:58] cruciform: I expect you're right re: meetup groups; not sure how else to find local BTC traders
[18:58] cruciform: possibly via localbitcoin.com
[18:59] jfw: they stopped being cool once they tried to ban cash. Probably got to go look for the generally cool people first then see who's interested in btc
[19:00] cruciform: yea, afaik they KYC everyone now, too
[19:00] cruciform: I've the problem that all my friends tend to do silly things like buy real estate/gold/stocks over BTC
[19:02] jfw: I'm no expert re the street trading, but seemed like some good advice given at http://ztkfg.com/2020/02/building-a-local-bitcoin-otc-network-in-guanacaste/
[19:04] cruciform: jfw, aha, thanks for the link!
[19:04] jfw: yw
[19:04] cruciform: now to see if my Boomer landlady takes coin...
[19:10] jfw: "~75% of fireplace heat goes up the chimney" - depends whether it's more of a decorative or functional fireplace too; plenty of ways to retain more heat if built for it
[19:11] jfw will bbl; hasta luego
[19:12] cruciform: take it easy!
[19:28] dorion just returning from working sponsors for a local bitcoin event of my own.
[19:28] cruciform: dorion, this was your BTC-as-sound-money pitch to golf club?
[19:29] dorion: ever been to Madrid or Barcelona before cruciform ? do you have friends/contacts there already ?
[19:29] cruciform: I've been to Barcelona; not Madrid - don't know anyone - it's an attempt to escape UK winter and learn Spanish
[19:30] dorion: yeah it's the golf club event, here's a draft of the flyer http://dorion-mode.com/bitcoin-beverages-baxters.pdf
[19:32] dorion: I see, I visited both a couple times when I studied in bilbao. liked barcelona more.
[19:32] cruciform: parsed "payment preference: Bitcoin, Cash," as "Bitcoin Cash"
[19:32] dorion: lol.
[19:33] cruciform: what did you prefer about Barcelona?
[19:34] dorion: keep in mind it was through university student's eyes, but I liked the setup more. the sea, las ramblas, etc.
[19:35] cruciform: yea; reckon I might end up agreeing with you - will have to spend a week or two in both and decide
[19:36] dorion: is one preferable to the other for poker ?
[19:37] cruciform: I know there's a casino in Barca; not sure about Madrid. There're a ton of Spanish poker players in London, so assume neither's great
[19:38] dorion: re Panama, I'm looking to at least test the waters mid-Q1. as of now I have a bias to rent for a month or two in chiriqui (western mountain province that borders costa rica).
[19:39] cruciform: look stunning
[19:39] cruciform: looks*
[19:40] dorion: <cruciform> now to see if my Boomer landlady takes coin... << does she have a son that would broker it for her/you ?
[19:41] dorion: how's the new place btw ? I recall you moved, but not recalling where.
[19:42] cruciform: only a daughter, afaik, but good point - I could ask. I moved to Bath a few months ago - it's lovely, though winter's coming and my lease ends in January, so considering options
[19:43] dorion: are most of your friends poker players ? when did you start playing btw ? it was bigly yuge mid-2000s with my friends.
[19:54] cruciform: dorion, I've only got a couple of close poker buddies; I started playing in 2011 - way after the mid-2000s golden era. Do you play?
[19:57] dorion: I've not played regularly for some years, but do like to play. played a couple weeks ago at a buddy's.
[20:05] dorion will bbl.
Day changed to 2020-10-17
[05:36] jfw: grumble... e2fsck on its time-based check decided that "Inode [number] extent tree (at level 2) could be narrower", and that this "could be more optimal" situation was important enough to interrupt bootup and ask me whether to "Fix?".
[05:38] jfw: not a problem on this machine but not good for things that need to boot unattended, guess I need to poke either the fsck options or e2fsprogs config files on Gales.
[05:42] jfw: if anyone's curious, that's run from the /etc/rc script; that and daemontools are about all there is to know about the Gales boot process.
[05:56] jfw: looks like I'm after "-p" for "preen", though I don't much like the language that it's for "automatically fixing problems". if there's a problem then I want to know about it; if on the other hand there's an "opportunity for optimization", it should either happen unconditionally or not at all.
Day changed to 2020-10-19
[18:57] whaack: jfw: heyo. I've been floating back and forth between the irc or web interface in my mind. I think that I'll go with irc. One headache is I would like to add a pushrawtx functionality to the blockexplorer, which may be annoying if the txn takes more bytes than irc allows in one message
Day changed to 2020-10-20
[16:12] cruciform: jfw, I've emailed you answers to session 1 homwork
[17:55] jfw: cruciform: received, thank you. Session 2 outline and homework are up on the site in case you'd like to preview / print. My own habit-homework is to start getting these up further in advance.
[17:56] cruciform: jfw, thanks; running about 5 minutes late for today's lesson
[20:30] jfw: cruciform: fyi I've corrected the known typos + misleading/confusing parts in the posted outline, in case you'd like to re-save / print / read.
[20:32] cruciform: jfw, thanks - I'll look at the updated version. 'Also, they stopped being cool once they tried to ban cash. Probably got to go look for the generally cool people first then see who's interested in btc' - turned out to be good advice; found a coupla poker guys looking to buy BTC OTC
[20:34] jfw: oh hey, nice
[20:38] jfw: whaack: I suppose the standard solution there would be to let it read as well as write from the designated paste service(s)
[20:39] jfw: or allow wrapping, by having a start of command delimiter that wouldn't be found in the rawtx hex
[20:42] jfw: or perhaps better, a closing delimiter so there's no doubt where the command ends. [line 1] !push "0123456 [line 2] abcdef"
Day changed to 2020-10-22
[20:34] jfw: I'll confess ftr that I forgot about the scheduled office hours today; because that I just didn't get caught doesn't mean it didn't happen.
[20:53] cruciform: jfw, thanks for full disclosure; as it turns out, I haven't got round to this week's homework yet anyway, so no questions unanswered at the moment
[20:57] jfw: so that works out fine apparently!
Day changed to 2020-10-23
[17:52] jfw: cruciform: dorion points out that I probably ought to offer to reschedule the office hours although they were unused so that we can all strengthen the habit. I can offer 18:00 UTC tomororw (Saturday)
[18:05] cruciform: jfw, perfect, thanks
[18:09] jfw: alright, noted.
Day changed to 2020-10-24
[18:01] cruciform: jfw, on Exercise 1, Q3 of Session 2 Homework, the command 'ls -d [A-Z]*' is listing files that don't start with a capital letter
[18:03] jfw: looking
[18:06] jfw: works for me; are you sure you "spelled" it right in the terminal?
[18:08] cruciform: yea; weird
[18:09] jfw: is this on the training system - shall I attach your tmux and have a look?
[18:09] cruciform: this is on my local system; lemme get on the training one
[18:10] jfw: another thought is maybe there are file names with spaces in them that you've confused for separate files
[18:12] cruciform: I don't see any files with spaces in 'em; works fine on training system
[18:14] jfw: most curious, pretty sure this should work the same on any linux/unix shell at least in the 'bourne' family. Do you mind screenshotting your terminal to show both the command and results?
[18:15] jfw: (there are more civilized i.e. text-based ways to do such session recording but guessing this will be the simplest for now.)
[18:17] jfw now imagines diana_coman saying "*never* just asusme something will work the same in a different environment unless verified!"
[18:17] cruciform: http://younghands.club/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/screenshot-from-2020-10-24-19-15-44.png
[18:18] cruciform: lol yes, 'just assume' got me in trouble from her recently
[18:19] jfw: I bet it's some "locales" / unicode thing, "2 can equal 12 in some cultures that don't discriminate against large numbers"
[18:19] cruciform: gotta love non-standard standards
[18:21] jfw: well in my view the ubuntu system is deviant; the original exercise, proposed answer & Gales Linux behavior are historically and logically correct, based on the objective fact that unix filesystems are case-sensitive.
[18:22] jfw: nice find though, thanks for asking
[18:22] cruciform: gotcha; I'll do the exercises on the test system
[18:22] cruciform: that was the only question from this week's work; thanks for your helpe and resheduled office hours
[18:23] jfw: cool, my pleasure.
[18:39] dorion is glad to read that worked out and vaguely recalls dash being the default shell on ubuntu.
[18:40] cruciform: I'm using GNOME Shell 3.28.4
[18:41] dorion: heh, I've heard of gnome, but not the shell.
[18:45] jfw: different type of shell (though same general concept), GNOME co-opted the term to simply mean ...GNOME.
[18:46] jfw: iirc dash is the default shell for script execution on ubuntu but it still has bash for user interaction, and I'm guessing it's bash at work here given the colorful prompt
Day changed to 2020-10-25
[16:27] cruciform: jfw, would it be possible to move this week's lesson back - perhaps to Wednesday @ 18:00 UTC?
[19:48] jfw: cruciform: it would.
[19:48] cruciform: jfw, great, let's do that - thanks! How's your weekend?
[20:05] jfw: weekend's fine, nothing too remarkable for me: got fresh bread from the oven, got fresh cookies even, and all my teeth still to rot with 'em; got trails to walk and take in the crisp leaves and crisp air; got hacking, wherein a pile of Scheme work continues slowly but surely coming together; and still got a mostly-neglected blog.
Day changed to 2020-10-26
[00:36] dorion: jfw, cruciform, do you want to maintain the thursday office hours or move back a day or two to give cruciform more time to work through the exercises ?
[00:38] dorion: ^just for this week I mean ?
[00:38] dorion: whoops, wasn't supposed to be a question.
[00:40] jfw: I could trade that for shifting Tuesday Nov. 10 class to Monday the 9th
[01:13] cruciform: jfw, dorion sounds good - Nov 9th, rather than 10th; how about moving office hours this week to Friday @ 18:00 UTC?
[01:14] jfw: works.
[01:15] cruciform: also, sounds like you had a great weekend!
[01:15] cruciform is afk
[01:16] jfw: thanks, cya.
Day changed to 2020-10-28
[18:01] jfw: how about that, all my recurring meetings have disappeared from Zoom. cruciform: I'll post an updated invite shortly.
[18:01] cruciform: jfw, ok
[18:05] jfw: ...or not, they reappeared and then there was USB driver trouble. Should be working now.
Day changed to 2020-10-30
[17:49] jfw: cruciform: I have corrected "Intermediate Use of the UNIX Operating System - Exercise 1" and the linked answers to reflect our present environment and will have 2-3 done shortly.
[17:49] cruciform: jfw, aha, I had wondered about that
[17:54] jfw: One note from the reading is that the "alias" command syntax shown is for the C or T shell. For ours (the Bourne shell family which is the usual on Linux) you need an = sign with no space between the alias name and definition, as in: alias my_command='existing_command -args' . (The quotes are necessary due to the space in the definition; the different types of quotes will be covered in more
[17:54] jfw: detail.)
[17:55] cruciform: jfw, gotcha - thanks
[17:56] cruciform: I'd like to do some reading up on graph&set theory - recommend any introductory textbooks?
[17:59] jfw: hm, my own introduction to the subject was from a course with assorted linked document sort of readings so I don't know a textbook offhand. 'Discrete math' is the more abstract branch and 'theory of computation' the more in-depth as applied to computing
[18:01] cruciform: thanks
[18:06] cruciform: it occured to me that the cmd line requires thinking because it's essentially writing, and writing IS thinking
[18:09] jfw: afaik the classic on symbolic logic is Whitehead & Russell but I'm a ways from tackling that; while set theory goes back to Cantor
[18:09] cruciform: corrected link from above
[18:09] jfw: indeed.
[18:09] cruciform: jfw, thanks - I'll check it out
[18:11] cruciform: I've been having some lulzy conversations with poker buddies regarding 'crypto' - they're all into Ethereum and who knows what else; skeptical of BTC coz it can't pay for coffee
[18:12] cruciform: I pointed to the idiocy of the crowds regarding the plague, and that 95% or w/e of global wealth is held by 1% of population; mass-adoption isn't necessary (cf. gold, stocks, SDRs etc.)
[18:12] jfw: heh, so do they think gold or the Bank of England aren't things because they aren't used retail?
[18:13] cruciform: exactly!
[18:13] cruciform: this is the guy who has 1/4 - 1/3 of his wealth in TSLA (P/E ~ 1K)...
[18:15] jfw: well, trend following works wonders, until it doesn't
[18:15] cruciform: jfw, I'm surprised you haven't already corrected the homeworks to refer to our system environment - hasn't this come up already with prior students?
[18:17] jfw: yes, and it's a shameful situation where I'd made corrections on printouts but not got them merged back to the source.
[18:21] jfw: not even sure why I've avoided it so; not like it's hard once I sit down to do it.
[18:21] cruciform: I see; perhaps you could correct 'em prior to the lessons, so I don't have to go back and repeat?
[18:22] cruciform: ime, avoidance doesn't tend to make much sense, by its very nature
[18:22] cruciform: nor is it all that connected to the amount of work being avoided
[18:23] jfw: quite so. and yes, I could & will.
[18:23] cruciform: cheers
[18:23] jfw: apologies for the trouble.
[18:24] cruciform: no problem; my only questions were regarding that issue
[18:25] cruciform: how's the Scheme interpreter going?
[18:26] jfw: well, if slowly; had a devil of a bug to trace that took me all the way down into Linux kernel sources
[18:27] jfw: with the result that a certain interface simply doesn't work the way I expected & wanted and I simply need to use a different method.
[18:28] cruciform: sounds tricky, but fruitful
[18:31] jfw: lately we've also been researching AMD graphics hardware and will be testing out a corebootable desktop option
[18:31] cruciform: cool - is that to get around Intel diddling?
[18:32] jfw: to get around Intel as a whole, for whatever badness may be thereby excluded
[18:34] cruciform: sounds good!
Day changed to 2020-10-31
[10:24] jfw: cruciform: now that we see what my "shortly" estimates mean - practice sets 2 and 3 and corresponding answer keys are all updated now. While it turned out I'd already covered the noted "alias" discrepancy in the text, there were a couple other things crying out to be updated or clarified; if you reload the text you should see the insertions highlighted in green.
[10:28] jfw: One way I screwed myself here - besides the initial call to build on someone else's stuff, although I kinda like the perspective it brings simply from being old, beyond what I could have come up with myself - was not going straight to an automated cleanup tool like perhaps http://www.html-tidy.org/ to deal with the mess of likely GUI-generated markup cruft that quite interfered with any actual
[10:28] jfw: editing work and got me doing pen on paper corrections in the first place.
[10:33] jfw: (so possibly the avoidance had an intelligible cause after all, lol)