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	<title>Comments on: Toothy problems, a confession</title>
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	<link>http://jfxpt.com/2024/toothy-problems-a-confession/</link>
	<description>The search for invariants</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2026 12:56:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jacob Welsh</title>
		<link>http://jfxpt.com/2024/toothy-problems-a-confession/#comment-2859</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Aug 2024 20:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jfxpt.com/?p=269#comment-2859</guid>
		<description>Mom adds, by way of her diary from 1995: "With most things, Jacob does them when he is good and ready!"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mom adds, by way of her diary from 1995: "With most things, Jacob does them when he is good and ready!"</p>
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		<title>By: Detoothing debriefing &#171; Fixpoint</title>
		<link>http://jfxpt.com/2024/toothy-problems-a-confession/#comment-2849</link>
		<dc:creator>Detoothing debriefing &#171; Fixpoint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Aug 2024 18:01:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jfxpt.com/?p=269#comment-2849</guid>
		<description>[...] next step in my journey toward restoration of full oral health or at least maintenance of current levels of function has been a decidedly invasive one: removing the living artifacts of my abortive third dentition; or [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] next step in my journey toward restoration of full oral health or at least maintenance of current levels of function has been a decidedly invasive one: removing the living artifacts of my abortive third dentition; or [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Welsh</title>
		<link>http://jfxpt.com/2024/toothy-problems-a-confession/#comment-2828</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Aug 2024 23:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jfxpt.com/?p=269#comment-2828</guid>
		<description>The second opinion is in, from a Cirujana Maxilofacial at a larger dental clinic in town. She came across as less knowledgeable, if equally confident in her judgement, and unfortunately in the "not taking the problem seriously" camp. For some new information at least, she palpated the area, finding no pain points nor anything otherwise amiss in the musculature, concluding that it doesn't appear to be bruxism (nocturnal clenching/grinding). She had me move my jaw to the extrema on various axes while feeling the joint and looking around, and was unable to reproduce the clicking/popping symptom, notwithstanding that I can readily do so myself right now and offered to try some more. She figured it was the disk popping in and out, and while this would tend to erode it over time, it's not the end of the world as its role somehow gets replaced by toughened tissue. Surgical intervention would not be indicated except in case of a closed lock, where the jaw is blocked from opening past ~10mm. There's something involving screws in the bone and sutures to hold the disk back in place, which has about 50% success rate if I understood rightly.

So according to her it's not that bad and all I can do anyway is take it easy on the joint - "if I were an orthopedic surgeon and you came to me with this problem in your knee, I'd say to stay out of any marathons or high jumps." So no chewing of gum, ice cubes, incompletely popped popcorn kernels, pencils, fingernails etc., none of which ever had a big presence in my life.

As to causes, it would either be some past trauma (again, not likely, unless we're talking about the braces) or else "microtraumas" such as from misaligned teeth; but in her view, my bite, while imperfect, is not misaligned in such a way as to be the problem here, and if I got braces, it would help the alignment but not make the jaw issues go away. So um... I guess that makes it a total mystery to her, yet at the same time not interesting enough to order imaging?

As to noninvasive mechanical interventions, she doesn't recommend a night guard unless there's bruxism, because it won't help and it's uncomfortable at night. Meanwhile, the one of mine - that I didn't mention - noticeably helps at least while wearing and is not uncomfortable, merely a bit inconvenient at times. Well, there is some discomfort that I've become more aware of, but that's from the new trigger points it creates and it's less than what's there without it.

As to the wisdom teeth, at my age they're quite done growing so whatever alignment/crowding damage is already done, and there's no harm in leaving them in unless they're infected or otherwise making trouble, but they'd have to come out to make room if going for orthodontics.

Putting aside the prior WTFs for a moment, that much at least makes sense to me. At least the lower left submerged one really doesn't seem to be doing any harm; so now I'm inclined to remove the impacted lower right one plus whichever or both of the erupted upper ones had cavities. Then give it a year and maybe a fresh opinion and re-evaluate on the braces, removing the remaining wisdoms if necessary at that point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The second opinion is in, from a Cirujana Maxilofacial at a larger dental clinic in town. She came across as less knowledgeable, if equally confident in her judgement, and unfortunately in the "not taking the problem seriously" camp. For some new information at least, she palpated the area, finding no pain points nor anything otherwise amiss in the musculature, concluding that it doesn't appear to be bruxism (nocturnal clenching/grinding). She had me move my jaw to the extrema on various axes while feeling the joint and looking around, and was unable to reproduce the clicking/popping symptom, notwithstanding that I can readily do so myself right now and offered to try some more. She figured it was the disk popping in and out, and while this would tend to erode it over time, it's not the end of the world as its role somehow gets replaced by toughened tissue. Surgical intervention would not be indicated except in case of a closed lock, where the jaw is blocked from opening past ~10mm. There's something involving screws in the bone and sutures to hold the disk back in place, which has about 50% success rate if I understood rightly.</p>
<p>So according to her it's not that bad and all I can do anyway is take it easy on the joint - "if I were an orthopedic surgeon and you came to me with this problem in your knee, I'd say to stay out of any marathons or high jumps." So no chewing of gum, ice cubes, incompletely popped popcorn kernels, pencils, fingernails etc., none of which ever had a big presence in my life.</p>
<p>As to causes, it would either be some past trauma (again, not likely, unless we're talking about the braces) or else "microtraumas" such as from misaligned teeth; but in her view, my bite, while imperfect, is not misaligned in such a way as to be the problem here, and if I got braces, it would help the alignment but not make the jaw issues go away. So um... I guess that makes it a total mystery to her, yet at the same time not interesting enough to order imaging?</p>
<p>As to noninvasive mechanical interventions, she doesn't recommend a night guard unless there's bruxism, because it won't help and it's uncomfortable at night. Meanwhile, the one of mine - that I didn't mention - noticeably helps at least while wearing and is not uncomfortable, merely a bit inconvenient at times. Well, there is some discomfort that I've become more aware of, but that's from the new trigger points it creates and it's less than what's there without it.</p>
<p>As to the wisdom teeth, at my age they're quite done growing so whatever alignment/crowding damage is already done, and there's no harm in leaving them in unless they're infected or otherwise making trouble, but they'd have to come out to make room if going for orthodontics.</p>
<p>Putting aside the prior WTFs for a moment, that much at least makes sense to me. At least the lower left submerged one really doesn't seem to be doing any harm; so now I'm inclined to remove the impacted lower right one plus whichever or both of the erupted upper ones had cavities. Then give it a year and maybe a fresh opinion and re-evaluate on the braces, removing the remaining wisdoms if necessary at that point.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Welsh</title>
		<link>http://jfxpt.com/2024/toothy-problems-a-confession/#comment-2812</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jul 2024 18:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>All things considered, the plan is still to get them out - but I've been smacked by some conveniently timed pharyngo-rhino-sinusitis such that today's not a suitable day and the suspense will continue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All things considered, the plan is still to get them out - but I've been smacked by some conveniently timed pharyngo-rhino-sinusitis such that today's not a suitable day and the suspense will continue.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacob Welsh</title>
		<link>http://jfxpt.com/2024/toothy-problems-a-confession/#comment-2802</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacob Welsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jul 2024 03:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks whaack, a solid point - maintaining diligence until a decision is final. Especially when a consultation is maybe 7% of the procedure's nominal cost, there seems little excuse not to get a second.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks whaack, a solid point - maintaining diligence until a decision is final. Especially when a consultation is maybe 7% of the procedure's nominal cost, there seems little excuse not to get a second.</p>
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		<title>By: whaack</title>
		<link>http://jfxpt.com/2024/toothy-problems-a-confession/#comment-2801</link>
		<dc:creator>whaack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jul 2024 03:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Also I am in agreement that the wisdom teeth surgery is mostly a scam. My dentist in the US was trying to convince me to get it, my dentist in Costa Rica complimented me on having all 32 teeth and seemed to think it was completely unnecessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also I am in agreement that the wisdom teeth surgery is mostly a scam. My dentist in the US was trying to convince me to get it, my dentist in Costa Rica complimented me on having all 32 teeth and seemed to think it was completely unnecessary.</p>
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		<title>By: whaack</title>
		<link>http://jfxpt.com/2024/toothy-problems-a-confession/#comment-2800</link>
		<dc:creator>whaack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jul 2024 03:00:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jfxpt.com/?p=269#comment-2800</guid>
		<description>I have a couple thoughts right away:

1. It makes sense to treat this problem seriously, the last paragraph about the things you don't know being the ones that hit you hardest may be true, but while you search for potential hidden monsters you have one that you have to tackle that is right front of you.

2. You said you had a list of dental clinics you were going to call but it seems that you have only spoke with one of them. Are you following up with the other ones? One of my big regrets is not getting a second opinion on my carpal tunnel surgery. Insane that I was so negligent, of course I had reasons - no one in my else in my area was available, I would've had to fly somewhere else or wait months and I had to take care of the problem now!

With the follow appointments, I would recommend not poisoning the dentists with a bias and just describe your symptoms and have them take their own photos and come to their own conclusion. The photos and argument you make are convincing, but it would be interesting to see if another dentist reaches the same conclusion on their own.

I sent you a PM with the info of a dentist I trust here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a couple thoughts right away:</p>
<p>1. It makes sense to treat this problem seriously, the last paragraph about the things you don't know being the ones that hit you hardest may be true, but while you search for potential hidden monsters you have one that you have to tackle that is right front of you.</p>
<p>2. You said you had a list of dental clinics you were going to call but it seems that you have only spoke with one of them. Are you following up with the other ones? One of my big regrets is not getting a second opinion on my carpal tunnel surgery. Insane that I was so negligent, of course I had reasons - no one in my else in my area was available, I would've had to fly somewhere else or wait months and I had to take care of the problem now!</p>
<p>With the follow appointments, I would recommend not poisoning the dentists with a bias and just describe your symptoms and have them take their own photos and come to their own conclusion. The photos and argument you make are convincing, but it would be interesting to see if another dentist reaches the same conclusion on their own.</p>
<p>I sent you a PM with the info of a dentist I trust here.</p>
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